Mesa Express Channel Switching

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Monty

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What is it that accounts for the inconsistency regarding Express amps and the channel switching delay. For example, my 5:25 head has roughly a half second latency when switching between channels. I've heard it's inherent in the design to prevent popping and I've also heard plenty of owners say that their unit does not do this. I played through a 5:25 combo the other day at a store and it did not do this behavior. What gives? Should this give me any hope of a fix? I realize that this topic has been broached in this forum previously but I'm not sure if this specific question has been asked/answered. Anybody know?
 
Monty said:
What is it that accounts for the inconsistency regarding Express amps and the channel switching delay. For example, my 5:25 head has roughly a half second latency when switching between channels. I've heard it's inherent in the design to prevent popping and I've also heard plenty of owners say that their unit does not do this. I played through a 5:25 combo the other day at a store and it did not do this behavior. What gives? Should this give me any hope of a fix? I realize that this topic has been broached in this forum previously but I'm not sure if this specific question has been asked/answered. Anybody know?

I've played over 20 different 5:25s and 5:50s and never heard this alleged overly long delay.
All of em have a slight delay & 1/2 second is no issue imo :mrgreen:
All amps have a slight delay
 
Hey Monty, I have the same issue with my newly acquired 5:50 head. I've actually been asking about it in another thread currently. I was beginning to think I was crazy but it is very noticeable in mine. I'm not sure if it does it all the time though I need to experiment some more. But when it does there is a very noticeable delay, enough that it's a deal breaker for me. So sorry I don't have an answer for you I just wanted to confirm that this does in fact happen, at least on some of the amps.
 
I've owned an Express 5:50 112 combo, 212 combo, and Express+ 5:50 head. None of them have any switching delay.

My Mark V and Roadster, on the other hand, did. Especially the Roadster.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
I've owned an Express 5:50 112 combo, 212 combo, and Express+ 5:50 head. None of them have any switching delay.

My Mark V and Roadster, on the other hand, did. Especially the Roadster.


Huh. Makes me wonder further about the possibility of a fix. I have heard that the Roadster had some of the worst amounts of delay time in the switching. The Boogie tech in my town that I spoke to seemed to be under the impression that most 2 channel, high gain Boogies have this problem. He didn't seem to be aware of the extreme variability of experiences that people are having with this issue, especially the different experiences people are having even within the same model of Boogie amp. Makes me wonder if the guy knows what he's talking about...and, again, makes me wonder if it could just be a crap relay or something.
 
Hi Monty,

I forgot who it was, but someone on TGP called Mesa and they did, indeed, confirm that this "muting" when channel switching is designed-in ...yessir, on purpose (this is WRT the Express models).

OK, that said, I have never noticed it on my old Marks, or on my current DC5 --which has been my live go-to amp for clear over a decade. YET, on my 5:25, I do hear a very short "muting" when channel switching. It is imperceptible if simply switching channels between songs. But if switching on the fly mid-song, then yes, my 525 absolutely has it; and none of my other boogies past/current does. It's a bit disconcerting, I agree, but only when switching on the fly mid-song, and ever so short; therefore not a deal-breaker for me. It just means I have to work around this idiosyncracy. Were the amp not "that good" in everything it does for me, I'd have sold it long ago. Only because it sounds/work so well for me, I live with it. A bit unfortunate, yes; but given its attributes in excellent tone and superb dynamics, I'll accept this annoyance.

Now I would think that this design would manifest in every Express amp. That you didn't hear it on one model in a store makes me wonder if perhaps you merely didn't notice it (other store noise/players, etc), or that each amp varies perhaps in the length of that mute? Who knows....

Edward
 
One man's delay is another man's rush job.
Your flab is my tightness.
His high gain is her clean.
Your 5:50 has a long channel switch delay and when he's using the same amp it's too fast.
Is it fast when you've taken uppers and slow when you're on downers ???
I think most of what people are describing as variations are simply different personal perceptions of minute passages of time :mrgreen:
 
edward said:
Hi Monty,

I forgot who it was, but someone on TGP called Mesa and they did, indeed, confirm that this "muting" when channel switching is designed-in ...yessir, on purpose (this is WRT the Express models).

OK, that said, I have never noticed it on my old Marks, or on my current DC5 --which has been my live go-to amp for clear over a decade. YET, on my 5:25, I do hear a very short "muting" when channel switching. It is imperceptible if simply switching channels between songs. But if switching on the fly mid-song, then yes, my 525 absolutely has it; and none of my other boogies past/current does. It's a bit disconcerting, I agree, but only when switching on the fly mid-song, and ever so short; therefore not a deal-breaker for me. It just means I have to work around this idiosyncracy. Were the amp not "that good" in everything it does for me, I'd have sold it long ago. Only because it sounds/work so well for me, I live with it. A bit unfortunate, yes; but given its attributes in excellent tone and superb dynamics, I'll accept this annoyance.

Now I would think that this design would manifest in every Express amp. That you didn't hear it on one model in a store makes me wonder if perhaps you merely didn't notice it (other store noise/players, etc), or that each amp varies perhaps in the length of that mute? Who knows....

Edward
I don't think that there were any external distractions, variables, etc in this situation. I was in a sound proof room that this store had for trying out amps and I was completely alone. I sat there for like 10 minutes in disbelief that I couldn't reproduce the problem on this unit in the store. I tested it playing my own songs with which I am naturally, extremely familiar as far as how the muting effects their dynamics. I was completely baffled.
 
Both of mine have a long-ish delay -- about a half second or so. But it's not horrible. I've switched channels mid-song live and it wasn't an issue.

I don't do it anymore because I changed the setup, but it can be done.
 
I bought a MINT condition 5:50 Plus a couple of weeks ago.
Got it home and immediately noticed the delay in channel switching.
I tried it with a Voodoo Lab Control Switcher, the switches on the front panel, and the footswitch.
The delay is definitely there. Guess it's not so much a delay as a drop in output for about half a second.
This is no good! My Rivera amps don't have any delay or drop out in switching.

Over the last 4 or 5 years, I've had the following amps that had this:
Roadster (early head, around 467 or so)(this was by far the worst delay, great sounding amp though)
Lonestar (early 10/100 model)(only noticed a delay in the reverb switching, channel switching seemed pretty fast)
Lonestar Classic (only noticed a delay in the reverb switching, channel switching seemed pretty fast)
Express 5:25 1x10 (non Plus version)(I did not notice very much delay, if any)
Mark V (this had the shortest delay in switching, but I hated the tone. To me the Roadster was much more of what I am looking for)
Express 5:50 Plus

Years ago, I asked Mesa (back when I was a tech for them). They said that it is a delay that is built into the switching circuit to defeat the reverb so that there is no "Whoosh" noise when changing channels.
This seems like there could have been a better work around. It actually made me swear off of newer Mesa amps for a long time because my old Mesa amps don't do this and there is no Whoosh sound even after I soup the reverb up a lot!
I was very intrigued by the 5:50 Plus. Not so much anymore.

My Express also has some issues that can't be explained by Mesa. They seem to be physically impossible, but yet the amp is doing it.
After an hour, I have a crackling sound on the Burn channel. It basically sounds like a bad preamp tube or dirty socket.
I changed all of the tubes (including power tubes) and the sound was still there.
Sockets were clean.
If I turn down the Master volume in the Burn channel, the sound goes away.
Now the weird part.......If I turn the amp to Standby when it is making the noise, the noise gets louder and more intense. It's not supposed to do that! The Standby switch kills all of the high voltage to the amp..........
The sounds that the amp is supposed to make go away like they should with the Standby switch......


The one good thing I can say about the Express is that it takes pedals extremely well! It also makes me miss my DC-5 even more.

I really hope they get the muting circuit thing figured out though!
 
I'd love to see a schematic of the switching. There are a number ways to make a relay activate slowly.

As an example, depending on the intended use of the relay, a diode is reverse biased a across the windings of the relay to prevent chatter. If the diode is a bit leaky, you can take a nap waiting for the relay to change states! :lol: Also, sometimes there is a capacitor on the B+ side of the relay that will momentarily hold the relay at the energized state when you de-energize it. When you consider the tolerance percentage, the caps will slightly vary in discharge time.

Like I said, I'd love to see the schematic.
 

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