First Delay Pedal

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So I Just purchased my first delay pedal. It's a Flashback Delay Pedal from TC Electronics. Does anyone else use this with their 5:50? If so do you have any input on using it? Settings, placement, fx loop, etc.? Also, does anyone have any favorite settings that you have found that you wish to share and what you use them for?
 
I have mine in the loop. Haven't settled on one particular setting yet but I mostly go between the Analog and Lo Fi modes for a short delay. The Toneprint from Pete Thorn has a really nice modulated sound that I use when I need a bit of chorus. Great pedal.
 
I have the TC Nova Repeater - Its in the serial loop. Sounds great very transparent, on or off.
 
suhr+mesa=greatness said:
So I Just purchased my first delay pedal. It's a Flashback Delay Pedal from TC Electronics. Does anyone else use this with their 5:50? If so do you have any input on using it? Settings, placement, fx loop, etc.? Also, does anyone have any favorite settings that you have found that you wish to share and what you use them for?


You chose well - the FB is now THE best small stomp delay pedal available imo.
Like all delay pedals place it in the 5:50's loop.
The settings in the manual and on the TC Electronics website are great starters then experiment yourself.
Enjoy :mrgreen:
 
Like all delay pedals place it in the 5:50's loop.

This seems to be the general consensus about delays, but why is it that they work here the best? And I'm new to the fx loop option too, how in the world do you access the settengs on the pedal once its in there since youre supposed to use the shortest cables possible? If its in the fx I can't set the delay to the tempo of the song, I can't loop, and I can't change tone prints with my iphone. I might be overlooking something but I'm struggling to see how the pros of the fx loop out weigh the cons when on stage. What do you guys do to manage your fx loops mid gig? Do you just use REALLY nice but long cables to the send and return from the front of the stage? Or buy two nice wireless guitar things? I just can't see the logistics for some reason. Thanks for the input guys!
 
It's the same as using any pedal... only it's routed through the effects loop and not into the front of the amp. You still keep it out front on your board.

Modulated effects always sound better through the loop. OD's and distortions though, you want those in front, always. So all you do is run your guitar signal like you usually do through whatever effects you have into the front except any delays and reverbs.

For those you would create a separate loop by going:
Back of amp: send->pedal: input.
Then back to the amp:
Pedal: output, Amp: Return.

This loop is totally separate from your guitar. So 2 additional cables is all you need.

By using a loop, you can still use the dirt channel of the amp and keep the delay pristine. If you run in in front of the amp (guitar, pedals, input), they'll usually sound awful since the delay is going to repeat a distorted signal since its in front of it. With it in the loop, the delay comes after the distortion and keeps it usable.
 
Haha, thank you release! That helps clarify why to put the delay in the loop, but I don't think you understood the main gist of my question. It's probably my fault because my mind tends to work a little different than most. Anyway, to clarify, my biggest concern is having a 40ft fx loop (20ft send, delay, 20ft return); is this ok? Because I want access to it at my feet but that's not possible with the 1-3ft cables that Mesa recommends in the express manual. I guess my question is: Can you use long cables in the fx loop without killing your tone? And if not, what's another way to do it while maintaining access front stage?
 
Yea, no problem at all. You run a long cable from your guitar to your board and then another one to the front of the amp, right? Any loss of tone that you can notice? It's the same with the loop. If you're Eric Johnson and can notice the sound of different batteries in a pedal, then yea, you'll probably notice something. But you probably won't.... and nobody else will either.

I think what Mesa was getting at was to try keeping the lengths between pedals as short as possible. It's best to keep your chain as tight as possible. But most of us run 20 foot cables for the loop and don't notice anything but killer tone from a clean loop.

Try plugging the delay through the loop and see what you think. If you're running a clean amp, then you can easily get away with it in the same line as your guitar. But if you use any amp distortion, you're going to notice a MASSIVE difference in quality with it in the loop.
 
Here's an experiment to make you a believer....

Do these 2 tests:
Part 1, straight into the amp.
Guitar->Flashback->Input of amp. Put the Flashback on the 2290 setting and the rest of the knobs at 12:00. On the amp, go to the clean channel first, no gain at all. Hit a chord or play a short lead line. It'll sound good and what exactly what you'd expect from a delay.

Now, switch it over to the burn channel with a decent amount of gain. Hit a chord and play a lead for a second. Honestly, that's probably the time you'll need (or be able to handle). The delays are going to sound harsh and unpleasant.

Part 2, the revelation....
2. Guitar-> amp. Put the Flashback in the loop (Send-input of delay, output goes to the return on the amp). Skip the clean channel all together on this test as it'll sound similar to the first test. Go directly to the Burn channel, same amount of gain. Now play something.

Chances are that you'll immediately have a huge grin on your face. The skies will open up, birds will sing, people will rejoice.
And it's at that point that you'll see the benefits of an effects loop and any concerns of cable lengths or anything else will quickly be forgotten.
 
suhr+mesa=greatness said:
Like all delay pedals place it in the 5:50's loop.

This seems to be the general consensus about delays, but why is it that they work here the best? And I'm new to the fx loop option too, how in the world do you access the settengs on the pedal once its in there since youre supposed to use the shortest cables possible? If its in the fx I can't set the delay to the tempo of the song, I can't loop, and I can't change tone prints with my iphone. I might be overlooking something but I'm struggling to see how the pros of the fx loop out weigh the cons when on stage. What do you guys do to manage your fx loops mid gig? Do you just use REALLY nice but long cables to the send and return from the front of the stage? Or buy two nice wireless guitar things? I just can't see the logistics for some reason. Thanks for the input guys!

hehehe do what Release said.
Time based effects like delays sound much better in the loop- they're clearer, crisper, more prominent, better tone overall
Here's a pic of my main pedal board cabled up.
The bottom row of pedals all go thru the front input of amp
The top row of 4 all are in the 5:50's loop.
It takes 4 x 10ft cables to set it up like this.
The R written on the brown cable into the black MXR EQ stands for "Return"
It's plugged from that pedal to the 5:50's Return jack
The cable from the grey MXR smartgate goes to the 5:50's Send jack - that's my loop :mrgreen:

PedalboardJan2012b.jpg
 
Here's my 2nd smaller pedal board
The first 2 from left are in the loop - delays sound best there & the black one is a turbo tuner (you can place that anywhere you want)
The last 4 from left are all OD's, distortion, fuzz, wah - ie tone producing effects so I've placed them plugged into the 5:50's input.

Cable length only becomes a tone loss issue if you got like more than 100ft of cable total.
Some guys use like 50 ft guitar cables x 4 plus long patch cables between pedals with 20 or more pedals
I'm only using approx 42 ft cable total so I've got no audible tone loos at all

SmallpedalboardJan2012.jpg
 
Post gig update: So, I loved this pedal in practice and just messing around with it by myself. It has lots of features for a pedal its size and you guys were right about the distortion sounding better with it in the loop even with the 40 extra feet of cable. HOWEVER, when I was up on stage in the heat of battle in front of the crowd it let me down. The "audio tapping" rhythm setter has no practical use mid song unless you want to quit playing for 10+ seconds. And since there are no presets, you have to choose between playing with the knkbs or setting the tempo when playing songs back to back. Ugh... I had such high hypes for this little guy but I eventually just had to roll the top 2 knobs back and use it as a chorus... Disappointing. I think it would be a good recording delay but I don't see any use for it unless you use the same delay at the same tempo for every song.

I plan to return this to guitar center this week and will then be looking for a replacement and have decided to invest a little monet. This brings me to my next question: Boss DD-20, TC Nova Delay, or Eventide TimeFactor? Or other? I just need help because I don't feed another repeat of last night. Nysurfer, I know you're biased to the TC but how do you think it compares? Help me please people!
 
I had the DD-20, its a great delay with 4+1 manual presets. I perceived a little "tone suck" though - a little darkening so to speak. However, I may be in the market for this one again. Iw as pretty good and I miss it a little. I loved Display and the external tap tempo.

I love my TC Nova repeater. That has the audio tapping and a tap tempo. If you liked the Flashback, this may be an option ($150) if you want a tap tempo model. Seems like a flat frequency response. I detect no "tone suck" with this model.

I will wind up with an additional delay from TC - Nova Delay w/ 9 presets. Just not immediately....
 
The Digitech Hardwire DL-8 is very similar to the Flashback and has tap tempo as another option.
 
Thanks guys, I checked out your suggestions for me I'll look pretty cool, but I tend to be leaning toward the Eventide. I like the fact that I have the ability to adjust everything I want to be able to adjust with the in the flashback and all the presets means no fumbling through controls between songs! The only concern I have is that it's $400. Does anyone have this currently or had this in the past that can give me some input on whether or not it's worth it? I know John Mayer uses two of them so they got to be pretty good, right?
 
suhr+mesa=greatness said:
Post gig update: So, I loved this pedal in practice and just messing around with it by myself. It has lots of features for a pedal its size and you guys were right about the distortion sounding better with it in the loop even with the 40 extra feet of cable. HOWEVER, when I was up on stage in the heat of battle in front of the crowd it let me down. The "audio tapping" rhythm setter has no practical use mid song unless you want to quit playing for 10+ seconds. And since there are no presets, you have to choose between playing with the knkbs or setting the tempo when playing songs back to back. Ugh... I had such high hypes for this little guy but I eventually just had to roll the top 2 knobs back and use it as a chorus... Disappointing. I think it would be a good recording delay but I don't see any use for it unless you use the same delay at the same tempo for every song.

I plan to return this to guitar center this week and will then be looking for a replacement and have decided to invest a little monet. This brings me to my next question: Boss DD-20, TC Nova Delay, or Eventide TimeFactor? Or other? I just need help because I don't feed another repeat of last night. Nysurfer, I know you're biased to the TC but how do you think it compares? Help me please people!


ahh Senor Suhr - it takes me 2 sec to set the tap tempo on the Flashback mid song.
You just need a little practice with it. It works just fine if you practice with it at home for 30 mins.
You give up way too easy hehehe
And if you can't stop playing for 2 secs mid song then remember the bpm and set it before you start.
No-one needs tap tempo.
There are NO other small stomps that have a better system for setting tap tempo than the FB.
Most of em have no tap tempo at all.

Then you move up to BIG delay pedals with programmable presets
I have a Nova Delay & prefer it to the huge old DD-20 and the Eventide is way too expensive imo
 
Suhr,

I see that you play "Christian Alternative". Does this include worship music? Do you guys use a click track/loop? If so, please note that to get the delay sounds used on a lot of today's christian recordings, your delay has to be perfectly timed to the click. Tap tempo is not reliable for this function (in my opinion), and I can sympathize that there is literally no time in between songs to bend over and fumble around with a stomp box. You NEED presets, and you need to be able to access them quickly and reliably. I have had SEVERAL delay units, and I came to the eventual conclusion that the TimeFactor is the absolute best for our application, and should be the default delay pedal for any praise musician. Here is why:

1) 100 banks of two programmable presets each
2) Easily accessible channels with a large LED screen, easy to read in the dark.
3) VERY transparent, does not color tone unless you want it to.
4) Highly adjustable, can make a very wide variety of sounds.
5) A whole bunch of technical reasons that make it just sound better (For one, it actually has two processors, to make two delays simultaneously, etc)

This pedal will take hours to master, though. I recommend an external switch for it. Mine is red and sparkly!
210948_2892526797892_1401931144_3143785_804253244_o.jpg


If price is an issue, you could always get a DD-20 or TimeBender.... but you will be limited to 5 presets with each, and honestly they do not sound as good.

I hope this helps!

-JUS-
 
JUS, thank's for understanding man. And yes, "Christian Alternative" means worship music. Thats our main thing but I since i figured most people would classify worship music with hymns or something I tried to use a more descriptive (identifiable) term. Anyway, was just about to say that I need to be able to set the tempo in BPM to sync it with the click-track and a tap tempo for the off chance that our drummer sits on the click-track (hahaha) and that I also NEED presets so that my delay doesn't become a distraction, not only for me but for everyone. Now, if the nova can do all that the I'd consider it and put the saved $$$ on a keeley katana I've had my eye on :) But your post has just about solidified my thoughts that i need to go ahead and invest in the best! Thanks for the input btw, I might be coming to you in the future since I'm new to the whole "playing through nice stuff" thing, and you seem to be in the same area of music as me. Keep rockin' brotha
 
Well I don't play "praise" or whatever you call it.
I'm a rock & blues player and you have time in between songs to do whatever you want :mrgreen:

The Timefactor is certainly a great delay but at $400 I'm not interested.
The Nova Delay will do what you want too
goodluck :)
 
Thank you for helping me see things from another perspective surfer! I played blues rock almost exclusively until I stepped in as the lead guitarist for my current band, love me some blues! It never ceases to amaze me that we can produce such concussively complex solos from such a simple scale! Enjoyed your music by the way, very well done! The only thing I would have changed was the fuzz you had on wayward son (a little too muddy for my taste), sweet riffs though
 

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