Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

5:25 and 5:50's

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Vogelsong
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Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Vogelsong » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:52 am

I'm trying to find a solution to my low volume woa's.

I need a low volume amp with good tone, it would be mic'd in this situation.

The problem I'm having is everything I have is just too loud for what I'm doing. It's beginning to look like my only solution is a low wattage 6v6 amp.

I don't like el84's, and class a/b seems to be what my ear likes. So if a 5:50 can be run in 50 watt mode with 6v6's that would be my ticket I think.

Can this be done?
Vogelsong

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Original 59 Fender Bandmaster,
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ifailedshapes
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by ifailedshapes » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:29 am

6V6 tubes are a no-go in the Express series. I know that you used to have a LSS. What made you give that amp up, and what are you looking for that wouldn't be found in a Lone Star?

The Express amps are great amps, and they're super versatile. The Contour control works really well, and the reverb is great. The clean and dirty sounds lack the 'magic' of Mesa's more expensive amps, but that doesn't mean they're bad by any means.

If you can get over the 6V6 thing, you'll really like an Express. If you really need the option of 6V6's and want to stick with Mesa, I'd recommend finding a used Lone Star Classic or Mark IV.
Guitars --> Pedals --> Amps

Past/Present Boogies
Express 5:50+ 1x12"
Stiletto Ace 1x12"
Electra Dyne Head
Lone Star Special 1x12"
Stiletto Ace Head
Express 5:25 1x10"
Mark IVb Widebody 1x12"

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J.J
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by J.J » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:32 am

I wouldn't have thought that 6V6 tubes would help you much anyway. I have a DRRI with 6V6 tubes and it still reaches ear crushing volumes. What about 5 watt mode for the 5:50 ?

I thought you were using a Mark V and if the 10 watt mode on that is still to much I'd look into using an attenuator to take the output down a notch. A good attenuator like the THD one can take off 3 to 6 dB without destroying your tone.

Something like a Fender Champ with 1 6V6 may also work if you don't need more than 1 channel.
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Don
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Don » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:03 am

I get surprisingly good tone out of my 5:50 at surprisingly low volume levels, even in the 50 watt mode. It's got very functional master controls. 6V6s would make very little difference.

Vogelsong
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Vogelsong » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:05 am

ifailedshapes wrote:6V6 tubes are a no-go in the Express series. I know that you used to have a LSS. What made you give that amp up, and what are you looking for that wouldn't be found in a Lone Star?

The Express amps are great amps, and they're super versatile. The Contour control works really well, and the reverb is great. The clean and dirty sounds lack the 'magic' of Mesa's more expensive amps, but that doesn't mean they're bad by any means.

If you can get over the 6V6 thing, you'll really like an Express. If you really need the option of 6V6's and want to stick with Mesa, I'd recommend finding a used Lone Star Classic or Mark IV.
Yea but with the LSC, and Marks you have to run them in tweed mode, and the LSC you have to run in 100 watts, the Mark is probably similar. So it's still loud, the problem I'm having is that everything I've had was too loud for my worship team.

I'm pretty much got tired of hearing of the LSS was too loud on 5 watts, the sound guys wouldn't turn me up because the amp did it all on it's own, but that was a problem because on 5 watts the girl bass player standing next to me couldn't handle the volume. So she moved and the horn player came over with me, he then moved.

There is a perception that stage volume is too loud and it's my fault. To me it's all good, the problem is they never had an electric guitar player. It has always been DI acoustics with an unmic'd drummer. I run my Vibroverb on 2.5, I traded the LSS for a Mark V hoping the Master would due it on 10 watts, nope still too loud. Unless I turned it down to barely audible, of course then it sounded like crap.


Sorry to sound like I'm venting, I'm just a little disgusted at this point. So now I'm trying to find a nice quiet alternative with good tone. Talk about an oxymoron. I really don't think attenuating is the answer as they will want me to run it so quiet that will still crush the tone.

So thats where I'm at.
Vogelsong

G&L Comanche,
G&L Legacy,
RI 64 Vibroverb Custom
Original 66 Fender Reverb,
Original 59 Fender Bandmaster,
69 Fender Coronada II,
51 Gibson ES300,
Beater Strat,
Waldon Acoustic,

Krek13
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Krek13 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:21 am

well maybe the rest of the band should turn themselves up..I can't event hear myself on 5w through 2x12 v30 box when we're rehearsing...

ifailedshapes
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by ifailedshapes » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:03 am

Vogelsong wrote:
ifailedshapes wrote:6V6 tubes are a no-go in the Express series. I know that you used to have a LSS. What made you give that amp up, and what are you looking for that wouldn't be found in a Lone Star?

The Express amps are great amps, and they're super versatile. The Contour control works really well, and the reverb is great. The clean and dirty sounds lack the 'magic' of Mesa's more expensive amps, but that doesn't mean they're bad by any means.

If you can get over the 6V6 thing, you'll really like an Express. If you really need the option of 6V6's and want to stick with Mesa, I'd recommend finding a used Lone Star Classic or Mark IV.
Yea but with the LSC, and Marks you have to run them in tweed mode, and the LSC you have to run in 100 watts, the Mark is probably similar. So it's still loud, the problem I'm having is that everything I've had was too loud for my worship team.

I'm pretty much got tired of hearing of the LSS was too loud on 5 watts, the sound guys wouldn't turn me up because the amp did it all on it's own, but that was a problem because on 5 watts the girl bass player standing next to me couldn't handle the volume. So she moved and the horn player came over with me, he then moved.

There is a perception that stage volume is too loud and it's my fault. To me it's all good, the problem is they never had an electric guitar player. It has always been DI acoustics with an unmic'd drummer. I run my Vibroverb on 2.5, I traded the LSS for a Mark V hoping the Master would due it on 10 watts, nope still too loud. Unless I turned it down to barely audible, of course then it sounded like crap.


Sorry to sound like I'm venting, I'm just a little disgusted at this point. So now I'm trying to find a nice quiet alternative with good tone. Talk about an oxymoron. I really don't think attenuating is the answer as they will want me to run it so quiet that will still crush the tone.

So thats where I'm at.
I'm a church musician, myself. The way I see it, you have a few options:

1) Find a place to hide your amp backstage and mic it.
2) Build or purchase an isolation cabinet.
3) Go with a good modeler like the Line 6 HD series.

My church has a back-stage area with sound-proofing on the walls where we hide the guitar amps. I really think going with a L6 HD is your best option though. It's amazing how great those little units sound; they're much better than the products L6 was making 10 years ago.
Guitars --> Pedals --> Amps

Past/Present Boogies
Express 5:50+ 1x12"
Stiletto Ace 1x12"
Electra Dyne Head
Lone Star Special 1x12"
Stiletto Ace Head
Express 5:25 1x10"
Mark IVb Widebody 1x12"

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J.J
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by J.J » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:34 pm

Mesa amps are designed to be loud :lol:

Sounds like you have a real problem in getting down in volume. In a live situation an attemuator can make all the difference. I'd never use one at home, but live they can take the edge off and tame things nicely.

Have you had a look at the Black star HT-1 ? That is a tube amp with a 1 watt output and a fairly low efficency speaker. The tone is pretty good with those, but a good speaker really helps.
Triple Crown 50 combo
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Mark 63 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:55 pm

What does the bass player use and where does she put it?

Vogelsong
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Vogelsong » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:45 pm

Mark 63 wrote:What does the bass player use and where does she put it?
She plays through a SS fender and it sits right behind her. The fender is also DI to the board.
Vogelsong

G&L Comanche,
G&L Legacy,
RI 64 Vibroverb Custom
Original 66 Fender Reverb,
Original 59 Fender Bandmaster,
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Newysurfer
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Newysurfer » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:29 am

Vogelsong wrote:I'm trying to find a solution to my low volume woa's.

I need a low volume amp with good tone, it would be mic'd in this situation.

The problem I'm having is everything I have is just too loud for what I'm doing. It's beginning to look like my only solution is a low wattage 6v6 amp.

I don't like el84's, and class a/b seems to be what my ear likes. So if a 5:50 can be run in 50 watt mode with 6v6's that would be my ticket I think.

Can this be done?

Just wondering why you think 6V6 amps are lower volume than 6L6 one's - all other things being equal.
I've owned 2 6V6 amps - an Egnater Rebel 30 now and a Rebel 20 before that.
The power tube types made no difference to volume on those and I've not heard of it making any difference on any other 6V6 amp either :mrgreen:
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Krek13 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:34 am

Oh, I forgot to mention...If you just want to lower the volume you can replace some of the 12ax7s with 12at7s or 12au7, thats going to significantly lower the volume of an amp, but you will lose some gain too...

Vogelsong
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by Vogelsong » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:40 pm

Newysurfer wrote:
Vogelsong wrote:I'm trying to find a solution to my low volume woa's.

I need a low volume amp with good tone, it would be mic'd in this situation.

The problem I'm having is everything I have is just too loud for what I'm doing. It's beginning to look like my only solution is a low wattage 6v6 amp.

I don't like el84's, and class a/b seems to be what my ear likes. So if a 5:50 can be run in 50 watt mode with 6v6's that would be my ticket I think.

Can this be done?

Just wondering why you think 6V6 amps are lower volume than 6L6 one's - all other things being equal.
I've owned 2 6V6 amps - an Egnater Rebel 30 now and a Rebel 20 before that.
The power tube types made no difference to volume on those and I've not heard of it making any difference on any other 6V6 amp either :mrgreen:

Because all the amps I've looked at that can run both 6v6 or 6l6 are usually 1/2 the wattage when run in the 6v6 configuration (ie: a quieter amp).
Vogelsong

G&L Comanche,
G&L Legacy,
RI 64 Vibroverb Custom
Original 66 Fender Reverb,
Original 59 Fender Bandmaster,
69 Fender Coronada II,
51 Gibson ES300,
Beater Strat,
Waldon Acoustic,

ifailedshapes
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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by ifailedshapes » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:40 pm

Vogelsong wrote:
Newysurfer wrote:
Vogelsong wrote:I'm trying to find a solution to my low volume woa's.

I need a low volume amp with good tone, it would be mic'd in this situation.

The problem I'm having is everything I have is just too loud for what I'm doing. It's beginning to look like my only solution is a low wattage 6v6 amp.

I don't like el84's, and class a/b seems to be what my ear likes. So if a 5:50 can be run in 50 watt mode with 6v6's that would be my ticket I think.

Can this be done?

Just wondering why you think 6V6 amps are lower volume than 6L6 one's - all other things being equal.
I've owned 2 6V6 amps - an Egnater Rebel 30 now and a Rebel 20 before that.
The power tube types made no difference to volume on those and I've not heard of it making any difference on any other 6V6 amp either :mrgreen:

Because all the amps I've looked at that can run both 6v6 or 6l6 are usually 1/2 the wattage when run in the 6v6 configuration (ie: a quieter amp).
Not really, man. Wattage and volume are not as related as we'd think.
Guitars --> Pedals --> Amps

Past/Present Boogies
Express 5:50+ 1x12"
Stiletto Ace 1x12"
Electra Dyne Head
Lone Star Special 1x12"
Stiletto Ace Head
Express 5:25 1x10"
Mark IVb Widebody 1x12"

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Re: Can you run 6v6's in an express 5:50...

Post by MrMarkIII » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:01 pm

The Express, at the 50 watt setting, is twice as loud as the 5 watt setting.
You need ten times the power to be twice as loud.
It's logarithmic, not linear.
Do the math.
In order to be half as loud as 5 watts, you need a half-watt amp.

Here's a P&W forum. Next to which dotted-eighth note delay is best, stage volume is probably the number one problem.
http://praiseandworshipforum.com/forum/index.php

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