Express 5:25 or...not?

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sepsis

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?ello everyone, new member here :)

I'm considering buying a Mesa Boogie these days. I'm looking for a sound close to Dream Theater's. I also play more brutal metal (like death metal) and also some heavy metal and rock.
I currently own a Sansamp GT2 which I play into a Tech 21 Power Engine. I get great sounds but I think it's time for sth bigger.

So, i have narrowed down my options to only Mesa Boogie for the moment. Due to a limitation in my budget the Express seems the ideal option for me. But from what i read, the express doesn't have the gain I need. Question number 1: Will the GT2 provide the gain I need? Or is it a bit of exaggeration to use a pedal in front of a Mesa Boogie? The Express here in Europe is about 1700euros.

The other option is buy the rectifier preamp and use it with my power engine! I emailed Tech 21 about this and they said that it probably needs a close back cabinet for the Boogie to hit that low end sound. But I guess bying an extra power engine to chain will cost less in the long run money wise. What is your opinion? The rectifier preamp goes for a little less than 1700euros

The third and more expensive option is a Single Rectifier Solo Head and a Roadster cabinet which cost about 2500euros. This a bit too much for me but I guess it's the best option sound wise.

However, I am not a live gig player. I do not play gigs that often and I need an amp primarly used in bedroom volume and/or rehearsal. Thus, the single rectifier solution apart from being expensive is also a bit excessive for my needs.
So I guess the true dilemma here is whether the rectifier preamp+power engine will sound better than the express+gt2
Take into consideration that minor deviations in sound are not a big deal for me. I do not intend to copy JP's sound but only to approach it.
Thanks for your time :)
 
sepsis said:
?ello everyone, new member here :)

I'm considering buying a Mesa Boogie these days. I'm looking for a sound close to Dream Theater's. I also play more brutal metal (like death metal) and also some heavy metal and rock.
I currently own a Sansamp GT2 which I play into a Tech 21 Power Engine. I get great sounds but I think it's time for sth bigger.

So, i have narrowed down my options to only Mesa Boogie for the moment. Due to a limitation in my budget the Express seems the ideal option for me. But from what i read, the express doesn't have the gain I need. Question number 1: Will the GT2 provide the gain I need? Or is it a bit of exaggeration to use a pedal in front of a Mesa Boogie? The Express here in Europe is about 1700euros.

The other option is buy the rectifier preamp and use it with my power engine! I emailed Tech 21 about this and they said that it probably needs a close back cabinet for the Boogie to hit that low end sound. But I guess bying an extra power engine to chain will cost less in the long run money wise. What is your opinion? The rectifier preamp goes for a little less than 1700euros

The third and more expensive option is a Single Rectifier Solo Head and a Roadster cabinet which cost about 2500euros. This a bit too much for me but I guess it's the best option sound wise.

However, I am not a live gig player. I do not play gigs that often and I need an amp primarly used in bedroom volume and/or rehearsal. Thus, the single rectifier solution apart from being expensive is also a bit excessive for my needs.
So I guess the true dilemma here is whether the rectifier preamp+power engine will sound better than the express+gt2
Take into consideration that minor deviations in sound are not a big deal for me. I do not intend to copy JP's sound but only to approach it.
Thanks for your time :)

Welcome to the Boogie Board :mrgreen:
The Express series amps do not do metal. Not what I call metal anyway - not enuf gain. But the 5:50 will put you into the Dream Theatre territory (not sure about the 5:25 though). A Recto, or an F-50, or a Stilletto or Rectoverb in the Mesa's will give you metal. But you need to crank em. For bedroom use these amps are not great cause you'll never be able to crank em loud enuf to saturate the tubes sufficiently to get great metal tones.

For that reason (+ price) I'd go for a 5:25 and use pedals for metal tones. Even the 5w setting on these amps is LOUD. The Express amps are excellent with pedals cause the clean channel is so great. I get great metal tones with a MI Audio Crunchbox mid scooped with the contour pot on my Express 5:50. Or even better with an MXR EQ pedal. I run it into the clean channel of the 5:50.

If you do get a 5:25 the 1 x 12" speaker model sounds better than the 1 x 10" :D
 
Newysurfer said:
Welcome to the Boogie Board :mrgreen:
The Express series amps do not do metal. Not what I call metal anyway - not enuf gain. But the 5:50 will put you into the Dream Theatre territory (not sure about the 5:25 though). A Recto, or an F-50, or a Stilletto or Rectoverb in the Mesa's will give you metal. But you need to crank em. For bedroom use these amps are not great cause you'll never be able to crank em loud enuf to saturate the tubes sufficiently to get great metal tones.

For that reason (+ price) I'd go for a 5:25 and use pedals for metal tones. Even the 5w setting on these amps is LOUD. The Express amps are excellent with pedals cause the clean channel is so great. I get great metal tones with a MI Audio Crunchbox mid scooped with the contour pot on my Express 5:50. Or even better with an MXR EQ pedal. I run it into the clean channel of the 5:50.

If you do get a 5:25 the 1 x 12" speaker model sounds better than the 1 x 10" :D

I will add to that - the 5:50 seems like a better choice "long term" as you get more power if you need to play live, and you get the same 5W setting (loud as mentionned) that makes it playable at bedroom levels. I tried both and the 5:25 (10" I think) was nowhere near as nice as the 5:50.

The clean (again as mentionned) is awesome and very pedal friendly. My son, like you is into playing Dream Theater/Petrucci and he's happy with the tones he's getting right now out of this rig (he's 12 mind you).

my 2 cents.
 
I've not tried a 5:25 with the 12in speaker but the 10in version I tried sounded small and boxy.

I own a 5:50 and love it, does everthing you need, from clean to almost Hi Gain I run a boosta grande pedal through the front end when I need more grunt. The EQ does need to be tweaked to get a real metal tone.
 
Sepis,

Being a former 5:50 owner, I can tell you based on my experience, that the channel 2 gain WILL NOT get you in the Dream Theater range without a pedal, and even with one, still may not do the job. I also used to own a MKIV and yes, the MKIV did Dream Theater quite easily, but not the 5:50. Sorry, to burst the bubble. However, BEFORE you blow lots of hard-earned money on a 5:50/5:25, which are both good amps, I would seriously consider (and play through if possible) a used F-50, F-100, or a Studio Preamp. These will get you much closer to what you desire, because they have the gain structure(s) to pull it off. Good luck!

Matt
 
here's the thing:
my previous amp was a Fender DeVille 60watt all tube which i used, of course, with the sansamp gt2 pedal and i was very happy with it. I had to sold it, sadly, because 60watts of tube is TOO much and I needed sth smaller. So I figured If i was happy with the fender's clean+gt2, why wouldn't i be happy with the express's clean+gt2 ?!?!
I do not want to buy an amp which has good metal channel because i will never use it. I only use pedals to get my metal sound. I think the express amp will do the job. i'm going for it at the moment, unless i stumble across anything more interesting : )
 
OK Sepsis, I see your logic. However, if the Fender's 60 watts was too much for you, the Express 5:50 is going to be similar all things being equal. The 5 watt setting of course will be a different story, but still (based on my experience) darn loud. Have you considered perhaps going with something like a Fender Princeton, a Fender Deluxe, or a low watt tube power amp (and still us the speaker of the PE60)? Just some things to consider. Mesa aren't cheap and being a gear ***** myself, I hate seeing folks blow money on something that won't give them what they need or want. I went that route with the Tech 21 PSA1.1 preamp and Power Engine combo. Either way, I suspect that you will like how the Express (either one) sounds; just make sure you get one with a 12" speaker. Good luck and happy hunting!

Matt
 
sepsis said:
why wouldn't i be happy with the express's clean+gt2 ?!?!
I do not want to buy an amp which has good metal channel because i will never use it. I only use pedals to get my metal sound.

I own a 5:50 and a GT2, I tried the GT2 into the Express and it sounded just plain harsh and fizzy, much like the GT2 sounds through any amp.

To get a heavier sound from the Express just put a clean boost pedal in the front end, afterall why put a pedal giving an artificial Mesa tone into a real Mesa amp???? :roll:
 
Matt is right on here. If Fender 60 watt amp is 'too much' I have an idea even a 5:25 cranked would be as well. I know for a fact my 5:50 volume wise blows a Fender Bandmaster out of the water.....hey it's a Mesa high gain thing.

Do some research on power versus decibels. The 5 watt setting may get you where you need to be but hell, if that is all you use just buy a good 5 watt amp. (2 cents)

And if you like the sound of your GT2 pedal...use it...pedals are a personal thing. Tone is in the fingers.

mdortona said:
OK Sepsis, I see your logic. However, if the Fender's 60 watts was too much for you, the Express 5:50 is going to be similar all things being equal. The 5 watt setting of course will be a different story, but still (based on my experience) darn loud. Have you considered perhaps going with something like a Fender Princeton, a Fender Deluxe, or a low watt tube power amp (and still us the speaker of the PE60)? Just some things to consider. Mesa aren't cheap and being a gear ***** myself, I hate seeing folks blow money on something that won't give them what they need or want. I went that route with the Tech 21 PSA1.1 preamp and Power Engine combo. Either way, I suspect that you will like how the Express (either one) sounds; just make sure you get one with a 12" speaker. Good luck and happy hunting!

Matt
 
both the Fender deluxe and princeton are much higher in watt than the express. Plus, the princeton only has a 10'' option
Anyway, the Express (5w mode) is the only chance of ever getting a Mesa at, say, <bedroom levels>. Plus, the 25w/50w option is not completely unusable for me because I will use it in rehearsals which, I guess, the 5w can't cover.
Besides, that other Mesa's are of 50watt and above and I won't spend that much money for sth that will not use. It's the same reason I sold the Deville in the first place. Other than that, my other options are amps other than Mesa, but still....good tube amps usually are of 40/50watts and above which still is quite loud for me. If you have other suggestions I would be happy to hear them out : )
In the long run, I rather buy the Express and spend some extra cash and be rewarded with tonal bliss

On another note, how about a studio preamp (or a rectifier preamp) with the power engine?
 
sepsis said:
both the Fender deluxe and princeton are much higher in watt than the express. Plus, the princeton only has a 10'' option
Anyway, the Express (5w mode) is the only chance of ever getting a Mesa at, say, <bedroom levels>. Plus, the 25w/50w option is not completely unusable for me because I will use it in rehearsals which, I guess, the 5w can't cover.
Besides, that other Mesa's are of 50watt and above and I won't spend that much money for sth that will not use. It's the same reason I sold the Deville in the first place. Other than that, my other options are amps other than Mesa, but still....good tube amps usually are of 40/50watts and above which still is quite loud for me. If you have other suggestions I would be happy to hear them out : )
In the long run, I rather buy the Express and spend some extra cash and be rewarded with tonal bliss

On another note, how about a studio preamp (or a rectifier preamp) with the power engine?

+1
I agree with you Sepsis. How usable you find the 5w setting on the Express amps totally depends on the size & situation of your bedroom/music room at home. At my house I can crank it no problems but in a small apartment you'd have issues. I've changed tubes on my 5:50 for higher gain one's and these do get me in the Dream Theatre territory. Consider doing the same on 5:25. If not, the right pedals certainly will get you metal tones and the Express takes pedals better than most other Mesa amps- plus it has a Series loop.

Your other option is to get a power attenuator like a Hotplate but they cost more $$ and can be hard on tubes.
 
Thank you all for your opinions. I found a used Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp and I'm going for it :)
 
how about an axe fx. through the power engine. it does everything.
 
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