8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Pre Recto days. Boogie modified Fenders, Mark I-IV, Dual Calibers, etc

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OryCheyne
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8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by OryCheyne » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:02 pm

Is it ok to run both the 8 ohms and 4 ohms outputs into separate 8 ohms speakers at the same time? Is this a match?
This is for my 22 combo with standard 50w black shadow plugged in the 8 ohm out, and a 90w black shadow open back box in the 4 ohm out.
I'm sure it is, but I just don't want to hurt the old thing.

Thanks
Ory

MrMarkIII
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by MrMarkIII » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:42 pm

You should have *two* four Ohm speaker outs. Run each 8 Ohm speaker from those two jacks.
Take the internal speaker out of the 8 Ohm jack, and plug it into one of the 4 Ohm speaker outs. Plug the extension cab into the other 4 Ohm speaker out.

I know it sounds like you are now running *two* four Ohm outputs, but no.
That's just the way Mesa labels the jacks. Check the manual.
You wouldn't hurt the amp using one 8 and one 4 Ohm output, but it would be a mismatch. The speaker in the 4 Ohm jack may be louder. The 90w Black Shadow may be louder anyway, so you could switch the speakers around in the three jacks you have to test.

Mesa says you can experiment without damage, as long as you don't run the amp totally speakerless.

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Don
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by Don » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:20 pm

Plug both into the 4 ohm jacks. This is detailed in the manual available on Mesa's website.

MrMarkIII
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by MrMarkIII » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:31 pm

... Seems to be an echo in here... :lol:

OryCheyne
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by OryCheyne » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:19 am

Thanks for the responses and for suggesting I check the manual. Funny thing is I'm on the other side of the planet and I still got the echo.

The Caliber Studio 22 I own only has one 4ohm and one 8 ohm out. That's why I was asking if it would be a mismatch. I don't have the manual for the 22 amp anymore however I recalled a lot of different combinations listed in the mkV manual. From what you say these extension combinations are not an option and may press the output of my 22, so after checking the mkV manual there wasn't any similar arrangements.

Only solution I think will work is to get both speakers in parallel or series out of either socket. The manual refers to a series box which would be 16 ohms, alternative would be parallel two 8's to a 4ohm load.
I am having a guess that the series 16 ohm option would provide the most responsive sounds. Can anyone share experience with this?

Also, I'm assuming the series or parallel boxes Boogie refer to are simply passive connections only. Am I good on that?

I'd previously used the extension cab on my mkV combo which has two 8's and two 4ohms out and loved it. Would be interested in trying an enclosed cab extension with the V, but that's a different area on this forum.

Cheers Cheers Cheers
Ory

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Don
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by Don » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:35 am

MrMarkIII wrote:... Seems to be an echo in here... :lol:
Sorry! I just wanted to add the point about many of Mesa's manuals being available online. :oops:
OryCheyne wrote:The Caliber Studio 22 I own only has one 4ohm and one 8 ohm out. That's why I was asking if it would be a mismatch. a different area on this forum.

Cheers Cheers Cheers
Ory
I didn't realize there were only two outputs on the 22. My 22+ has one 8 ohm and two 4s.

OryCheyne
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by OryCheyne » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:48 pm

All good conversation on this forum!

My question now is which is better:
- 16 into 8;
- 16 into 4; or
- 4 into 4?

Is there a rule about response vs. load? or does either option work the same.
Rethinking my earlier assumption, it is probably the 4 ohm option that would be more responsive, I wonder if it is even noticeable?
No harm done as yet, definitely not using as is!

Thanks
Ory

morgan138
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by morgan138 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:30 am

OryCheyne wrote:My question now is which is better:
- 16 into 8;
- 16 into 4; or
- 4 into 4?
The rule of thumb I've heard for tube amps (not solid state) is that you should be okay with a 2-to-1 mismatch in either direction. So...

16 into 8 = okay
16 into 4 = not okay
4 into 4 = ideal

In any case, the Studio 22 manual says to use the 4 ohm input when adding an extension cab, so I'm assuming that jack has a switch that sets the power amp to 4 ohms instead of 8.

http://mesaboogie.com/media/User%20Manu ... manual.pdf

OryCheyne
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by OryCheyne » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:37 am

Wow thanks for link to the manual. Bought back some memories.
Looks like I'll run the extension cab via the 4 ohm. Makes sense mesa would have set it up that way.

Thanks for your help. Last thing I wanted was to stress the lil ol boogie.

Last note! Just saw a Thiele cab and open cab go on eBay here in Australia, didn't see how much the open back went for but the Thiele went for around $260. I thought that was a good pick up for the lucky winner. I already have an open cab, so one day who knows, a Thiele might be on my menu.

Cheers
Ory

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Don
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by Don » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:42 am

OryCheyne wrote:Last note! Just saw a Thiele cab and open cab go on eBay here in Australia, didn't see how much the open back went for but the Thiele went for around $260. I thought that was a good pick up for the lucky winner. I already have an open cab, so one day who knows, a Thiele might be on my menu.
I use Mesa Thiele cab with an EVM12L with my Studio 22+. It's awesome! I love it for the clean and dirty sound. I have an Eminence Private Jack in my Studio. I really thought I liked the stock speaker until I heard the Private Jack. It's a little brighter and more articulate. It works well with the smooth EVM12L

I essentially paid NOTHING for my Thiele cab! I bought it with a clean DC-3 combo that needed repair for $400 (for the amp AND cab). I put about $25 into repairs on the DC-3 and sold that for $500! I ended up with $75 in my pocket AND the Thiele cab!

OryCheyne
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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by OryCheyne » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:02 pm

Ha! Nice work.
I picked up my cab in 1994 while working in country NSW (not quite as far as the outback). I remember seeing it in our equivalent of a pawn shop and paying only $70. It has the metal corners that match my 22. I can only figure that a working band may have lost it after playing a gig at one of the local towns. Not a good thought!
In all that time that I've owned it I never once thought to hang in off the 22. I used it many times gigging with my mkII combo before getting a quad. I had loaned it to a friend a while back who returned it recently after I bought a mkV. He brought it around for the V and sounds fine, doesn't muddy anything more a mid bright and thicker sound wall. He is a great mate, just the other week he left his SRV custom for me to try, mind you I was blown away by that guitar, 199?.
But the little tolex cab doesn't look the part with the mkV or mkII which are both wood finish. Would love a wide enclosed cab to match the V but I would also love to have a newer car and for my wife to not do a mental!
Here I am cheering about picking up a cheap cab but still dish out thousands on other items. In Australia we pay a lot for our Boogies.
Anyway, out of bed, I'm going to plug the cab into the 22 and annoy the neighborhood.

Ory

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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by scottjpatrick » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:31 am

I recently picked up a Studio 22 with the same single 8 and 4 Ohm outputs. My reading of the manual makes me think that the 4 Ohm output is for a 4ohm cab, not another 8. I plan to get mine modded anyway and part of the mod will be to add another 4 ohm output in parallel with the existing one, that will give me the same setup as in the 22+ so I can use both the internal speaker and an 8ohm extension at the same time.

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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by OryCheyne » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:51 pm

Hey Scott, nice little amp the 22.
I had the same initial thoughts on the 4 ohm 8 ohm issue. I've played it at volume several times now in this combination with no apparent issues. Just sounds fuller.
Well I hope I didn't do it any damage.
However you've got me worried and I think I'll parallel the 8's into the 4 to be on the safe side.

Cheers
Ory

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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by scottjpatrick » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:28 pm

OryCheyne wrote:Hey Scott, nice little amp the 22.
I had the same initial thoughts on the 4 ohm 8 ohm issue. I've played it at volume several times now in this combination with no apparent issues. Just sounds fuller.
Well I hope I didn't do it any damage.
However you've got me worried and I think I'll parallel the 8's into the 4 to be on the safe side.

Cheers
Ory
Yeah, the manual states that the 8 ohm should be used for the internal speaker or connected to a 4 x 12, the 4 was to be used with a 2 x 12, Boogie seemed to think that all speakers were 8 ohms back then! Really isn't very clear at all. I don't think that running an 8ohm speaker from the 4 socket will do any great harm, the 2 to 1 ratio with valve amps holds up pretty well but I'm going for the extra 4 ohm socket on mine. I will talk to the tech about it first to make sure.

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Re: 8 Ohm cab in the 4 Ohms out is OK? studio 22

Post by morgan138 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:28 am

scottjpatrick wrote:I recently picked up a Studio 22 with the same single 8 and 4 Ohm outputs. My reading of the manual makes me think that the 4 Ohm output is for a 4ohm cab, not another 8.
The manual says "use the 4 ohm jack when adding an extension speaker". This clearly means "adding an extension speaker (to the combo's speaker which is plugged into its normal 8 ohm jack)", because otherwise you'd just plug the extension speaker into the same jack you previously had the combo speaker connected to.

And on top of that, what would be the point of having a 4 ohm jack meant only to be used with just one extension speaker? It'd never get used -- I don't think I've ever heard of a 4 ohm guitar speaker.

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