old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Pre Recto days. Boogie modified Fenders, Mark I-IV, Dual Calibers, etc

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caucajun
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old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by caucajun » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:08 pm

i see that 1991 is the majik border..........what changed? if one iz better....then, why?
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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by GD_NC » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:09 pm

HMM. I've been using Boogies since 1989. I've had a early 80's Mark IIB, Mark IVa (1990), Mark IVb (late 90s) & and mid 90's DC-3. They all kicked ass.

I'd argure the weakest point in their history was around the late 90's/early 2000's. The end of the Caliber line around this time was a huge mistake in my opinion. They tried to go in too many directions at once with the f-series, Nomad, Maverick, heartbreaker etc... Those amps all had fairly short lives and most of the ideas were refined and later incorporated into a much better product. The eariler success with the Mark IV and Rectos certainly seemed to carry them through this without much trouble. If they had to depend on their other products it might have been ugly.

Seems like they are putting out some great gear at the moment. Most of it the decendents of those earlier experiments in the 90's I'd love to have a new ED or a Lonestar if I had the cash.
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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by bartchamdoh » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:09 pm

I have to concur with the above point of view in that during this period mesa tried to diversify with to many products in to many directions.I actually thought the biggest mistake they made was getting rid of the subway rocket at about this time, they sold by the bucket load and were a great product( it was basically a stripped down dual calliber anyway)I thought the blue angel and maverick were also cool products and never got the recognition they deserved(there,s a cool clip of some guy playing a maverick short head with a telecaster on youtube at the mo).
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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by Scary » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:37 pm

I don't know, but I can tell you that the Mark IVb and the Mark V are awesome. You don't have to have a cork tuned nose to appreciate the awesome tones that fly out of those amps.

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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by zebpedersen » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:26 am

In the 'vintage (before 1991)' forum you're not going to get a very good spread of answers necessarily :)

Still, it depends what mood you're in. They're all awesome (Mark series, that is). Probably for amps other than the Mark series you will get a better selection post-91. But it's entirely down to personal opinion.
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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by dodger916 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:22 am

zebpedersen wrote:In the 'vintage (before 1991)' forum you're not going to get a very good spread of answers necessarily :)

Still, it depends what mood you're in. They're all awesome (Mark series, that is). Probably for amps other than the Mark series you will get a better selection post-91. But it's entirely down to personal opinion.
+1. The older Marks (with simpler signal path) have an unbeatable feel and dynamic. The newer amps provide more versatility and flexibility, but the more complex signal path sacrifices some of that classic Boogie feel IMO. As has been noted here, it's a matter of personal preference.

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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by Restless Rocks » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:44 am

The newer amps are chock full of relays and FET's in the switching matrix's which are known to be noisey and problematic.(popping noise when switching channels) Although from a manufacturing point of veiw it holds the cost of the product down considerably. I much prefer the good old expensive LDR's (not seen much since the Mark IV) because they are quiet and reliable

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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by zebpedersen » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:27 am

Restless Rocks wrote:The newer amps are chock full of relays and FET's in the switching matrix's which are known to be noisey and problematic.(popping noise when switching channels) Although from a manufacturing point of veiw it holds the cost of the product down considerably. I much prefer the good old expensive LDR's (not seen much since the Mark IV) because they are quiet and reliable
That said, the switching system is the least reliable part of the Mark IV. (That doesn't mean that it even approaches anything resembling 'unreliability')
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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by Monsta-Tone » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:31 am

Restless Rocks wrote:The newer amps are chock full of relays and FET's in the switching matrix's which are known to be noisey and problematic.(popping noise when switching channels) Although from a manufacturing point of veiw it holds the cost of the product down considerably. I much prefer the good old expensive LDR's (not seen much since the Mark IV) because they are quiet and reliable


I have to agree with this to a certain extent! I love the features that some of the newer amps have, especially the Solo Boost, but at what expense?
I've had 2 Lonestars & a Roadster. While I thought they were great amps, The 'Recto-Tracking' and the Reverb delay when switching channels is bullshit!

Recto-Tracking = Mesa deciding when I should use my Rectifier tube. The spiel that I got was that there were numerous failures of Rectifier tubes because they could not handle the current draw of the amp when the amp was set to full power. I have repaired hundreds of Mesa amps and never seen this problem!
If I want 100 watts with the Rectifier setting, that is what I want. Not some engineer's or marketing guy's opinion!

The Reverb delay when channel switching is not that noticable in a live setting. But....I have 3 small kids. A live setting won't happen for me for another few years. It is unacceptable to me that there is a delay when changing channels, popping when changing channels, or the Reverb cutting out when changing channels.

And......I simply feel that with the added features and channels, there is far too much going on in the amp. I don't think that my signal path should use the same tubes for all channels and simply switch in different components. I fully understand that this is a cost cutting measure, but I like my older amps because I can change tubes for each channel individually to achieve any kind of tone I am looking for.




For these reasons, and a few others, I choose older Mesa amps. The simple fact that I spent over $4,000 and was not satisfied is tragic. It makes me think that marketing is winning and proper engineering is falling behind in the game.

That being said, I like the Heartbreaker, Maverick, Blue Angel, Nomad (sort of), & DC's. I've owned just about every model that Mesa has made, with the exception of the oldest and a few of the newer ones. I've had 2 Mark IV's that have had very few issues, channel switching was not on the list.


Now that I'm done ranting (It's Saturday and I'm not coffee-d up yet :lol: ) I will say that the Electro-Dyne looks interesting. I'm not interested in the Stilleto series, or any of the current Recto series. The Mark V looks really cool, but I don't want an amp that I have to tweak and the Mark IV's really probably ruined that for me.


The current (who am I kidding, it's been bad for quite a while) economy is killing me financially, so I will stick to buying the underdog Mesa amps and souping them up! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Elvis said.......
Amp techs do get shocked. :shock:

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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by Scary » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:33 am

Monsta-Tone wrote:
Restless Rocks wrote:The newer amps are chock full of relays and FET's in the switching matrix's which are known to be noisey and problematic.(popping noise when switching channels) Although from a manufacturing point of veiw it holds the cost of the product down considerably. I much prefer the good old expensive LDR's (not seen much since the Mark IV) because they are quiet and reliable


I have to agree with this to a certain extent! I love the features that some of the newer amps have, especially the Solo Boost, but at what expense?
I've had 2 Lonestars & a Roadster. While I thought they were great amps, The 'Recto-Tracking' and the Reverb delay when switching channels is bullshit!

Recto-Tracking = Mesa deciding when I should use my Rectifier tube. The spiel that I got was that there were numerous failures of Rectifier tubes because they could not handle the current draw of the amp when the amp was set to full power. I have repaired hundreds of Mesa amps and never seen this problem!
If I want 100 watts with the Rectifier setting, that is what I want. Not some engineer's or marketing guy's opinion!

The Reverb delay when channel switching is not that noticable in a live setting. But....I have 3 small kids. A live setting won't happen for me for another few years. It is unacceptable to me that there is a delay when changing channels, popping when changing channels, or the Reverb cutting out when changing channels.

And......I simply feel that with the added features and channels, there is far too much going on in the amp. I don't think that my signal path should use the same tubes for all channels and simply switch in different components. I fully understand that this is a cost cutting measure, but I like my older amps because I can change tubes for each channel individually to achieve any kind of tone I am looking for.




For these reasons, and a few others, I choose older Mesa amps. The simple fact that I spent over $4,000 and was not satisfied is tragic. It makes me think that marketing is winning and proper engineering is falling behind in the game.

That being said, I like the Heartbreaker, Maverick, Blue Angel, Nomad (sort of), & DC's. I've owned just about every model that Mesa has made, with the exception of the oldest and a few of the newer ones. I've had 2 Mark IV's that have had very few issues, channel switching was not on the list.


Now that I'm done ranting (It's Saturday and I'm not coffee-d up yet :lol: ) I will say that the Electro-Dyne looks interesting. I'm not interested in the Stilleto series, or any of the current Recto series. The Mark V looks really cool, but I don't want an amp that I have to tweak and the Mark IV's really probably ruined that for me.


The current (who am I kidding, it's been bad for quite a while) economy is killing me financially, so I will stick to buying the underdog Mesa amps and souping them up! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
It's alot easier for me to get great tones out of the Mk5 than the IV. You can tweak both forever if you're more worried about your amps tone than your own. Still though usable tone can easily be obtained.

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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by UltraGary » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:40 pm

...but the real answer to your question is: Whichever one sounds the best to you.
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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by Monsta-Tone » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:05 pm

UltraGary wrote:...but the real answer to your question is: Whichever one sounds the best to you.

:D :D Hell Yeah! :D :D
Elvis said.......
Amp techs do get shocked. :shock:

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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by rockboy999 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:20 am

I have had a bit of each..Bottle rocket,V-Twin,Subway Rocket,5:25 and now the DC-10. I have to say that I agree with the above too. I think the older Boogies just have that magic while the newer models sound a bit sterile. Anyway if you can find an older Mesa for a good price try it!!!

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Re: old or new boogies: witch iz betta'?

Post by treedroppings » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:44 am

I had re-capped and retubed a Mark 1 re-issue, and the guy replaced 2 cap and a resistor in the pre-amp for a more marshall-like sound (made in Jan '90). It is now sounding really good, better than the mitchell pro 100 plus oversized and closed up 112 EVM cab I used to judge everything by ( I think Mitchell copied mesa boogie's mark 1 design back then? ).
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