Simul-Satellite

Pre Recto days. Boogie modified Fenders, Mark I-IV, Dual Calibers, etc

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joegold
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Post by joegold » Mon May 15, 2006 6:52 pm

Russ wrote:Cool I will have to start shopping for one.

As far as the implementation of the 6V6 you have to run in triode tweed according to the manual. I would assume that they go in the outer sockets also as the tweed runs the outer pair cut down. If you are not in triode tweed then you will surely fry something.
The Simul-Satellite dos not have a Triode/Pentode switch. the outer tube sockets are wired for Pentode/Class AB operation but they have a weird bias voltage that makes them behave somewhat like the Class A/Triode sockets on earlier Mesa Simul-Class amps (like the MKIIB, MKIIC, and early MKIII's).

The MKIV does have a Pentode/Triode switch and I assume that when that amp is switched to Triode mode the outer sockets are indeed in a true Class A/Triode configuration.

And the MKIV manual says nothing about needing the outer pair switched to triode mode when using 6V6's in that amp. All it says is that the amp should be in Tweed Power mode (not Full Power) as well as in Simul-Class mode (not Class A mode). My guess is that triode mode for the outer pair is probably not a good idea with 6V6's in there. It also says that an 8 ohm speaker should be plugged into the 4 ohm speaker output so that the 6V6 tubes won't burn out too quickly. They also say that they won't warranty it to work.

mrmax
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Post by mrmax » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:50 am

I've been using the same 6v6 Quartet (Ruby Tubes)in my MK IV for several years without any problems. I prefer triode mode. As for the manual for the simuclass satellite call Boogie and ask for the cardboard cheatsheet that attached to the top of the amp. That's how I got my "manual" :wink:
DC 10's , Heart Breakers, & Marks,(10 Boogies & 7 cabs in all) ...18 yrs...The Honeymoon continues!

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dmt
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Post by dmt » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:12 am

I have KT66 tubes in my Simul-Satellite. Sounds Killer. Some adjustments had to be made to the plate volatage i think.

mrmax
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Post by mrmax » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:52 am

Way Cool! I love experimenting myself ! :)
DC 10's , Heart Breakers, & Marks,(10 Boogies & 7 cabs in all) ...18 yrs...The Honeymoon continues!

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dmt
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Post by dmt » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:34 am

My Simul_Satelite has a Switch in the back that changes from Class A to Simul Class. Isnt that the Triode / Pentode Switch?

mrmax
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Post by mrmax » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:51 am

NO! :!:
DC 10's , Heart Breakers, & Marks,(10 Boogies & 7 cabs in all) ...18 yrs...The Honeymoon continues!

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dmt
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Post by dmt » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:27 pm

Then what is it?

joegold
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Post by joegold » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:07 pm

dmt wrote:My Simul_Satelite has a Switch in the back that changes from Class A to Simul Class. Isnt that the Triode / Pentode Switch?
That switch turns the inner pair of power tubes off, leaving the outer pair on.

In that amp, the outer pair of power tubes are biased differently than the inner pair and put out less power and clip sooner.
Mesa calls this "Class A" operation, but it really isn't. (see below)
The inner pair of power tubes are running in Class AB.
When all 4 tubes are running they call it "Simul-Class" operation.

There is a lot of confusion about Mesa's use of the words "Class A" in their Simul-Class amp designs. Here's what I was told by Mesa's head tech.

1. The very first Simul-Class amps (the later MKII's and most MKIII's, and maybe the 295's and 395's) had the outer pair of power tubes (which were EL34's) running in triode mode and biased so that they were operating in a true Class A configuration.

[The inner pair of power tubes in every Simul-Class amp are operating in pentode mode, Class AB.]

2. But the EL34s available at that time were unreliable and kept frying. So in later "Simul-Class" amps (MKIII Green stripe, Simul-Satellite, 2:90, etc.) Mesa switched the outer tube pair to 6L6's in pentode mode, but still biased funny so that they behave and sound somewhat like the original Simul-Class amp's Class A circuit.

I.e *They continued to call it "Class A" even though it isn't really running in Class A.*

It is my understanding that you can not have 6L6 or EL34 power tubes running in the Class A region in pentode mode, but I could be wrong.

At any rate, everybody I've talked to including Mike Bendinelli at Mesa, says that the outer pair of power tubes in the Simul-Satellite (and the 2:90, and the MKIII Green stripe) are running in Class AB pentode mode, but they are biased differently than the inner pair of power tubes.

3. The MKIV has a triode/pentode switch that affects the outer pair of power tubes. I'm guessing that when set to triode/Class A or triode/Simul-Class that these amps really do have the outer pair of power tubes running in Class A.
But when the amp is set to pentode/Class A or Pentode/Simul-Class the outer pair of tubes are in Class AB operation, just like they are on the Simul-Satellite.

Hope that helps.

onlymoons
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Mint Simul-Satellite question

Post by onlymoons » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:46 pm

Hi, all.

I'm a longtime lurker and Boogie player. I'm raising cash for a wedding, and thinking of letting a mint Simul-Satellite combo with flight case go. It's a 1992 direct purchase, with literally less than one hour of playing time on it. This was played longer during the factory burn-in than the time I've played it. I have a long story as to how I got this amp and never played it, but will save that for another time, if folks are truly interested in the amp.

I've seen none for sale on eBay, and was wondering what a current fair rate would be. Thank you in advance for any and all help.

I post regularly on birdsandmoons.com, and have buying/selling references there.

Ashstrodamus
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Re: Simul-Satellite

Post by Ashstrodamus » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:54 pm

I recently bought one. I've got the Mark IV and Satellite each hooked to a 4x12. I don't want a bunch of effects....just delay and reverb. How do I get this rig "stereod" up? I'm a complete idiot to effects and processor setups....I've always ran the straight signal from my Mark IV. Will a Boss DD-7 get me a stereo setup? I have the brochure from the 90's that shows a mock up effects processor and how to hook the IV and the Simul-Sat together. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

joegold
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Re: Simul-Satellite

Post by joegold » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:01 pm

Ashstrodamus wrote:I recently bought one. I've got the Mark IV and Satellite each hooked to a 4x12. I don't want a bunch of effects....just delay and reverb. How do I get this rig "stereod" up? I'm a complete idiot to effects and processor setups....I've always ran the straight signal from my Mark IV. Will a Boss DD-7 get me a stereo setup? I have the brochure from the 90's that shows a mock up effects processor and how to hook the IV and the Simul-Sat together. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I think it's all described in the MKIV's owner's manual.

Ashstrodamus
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Re: Simul-Satellite

Post by Ashstrodamus » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:01 pm

joegold wrote:
Ashstrodamus wrote:I recently bought one. I've got the Mark IV and Satellite each hooked to a 4x12. I don't want a bunch of effects....just delay and reverb. How do I get this rig "stereod" up? I'm a complete idiot to effects and processor setups....I've always ran the straight signal from my Mark IV. Will a Boss DD-7 get me a stereo setup? I have the brochure from the 90's that shows a mock up effects processor and how to hook the IV and the Simul-Sat together. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I think it's all described in the MKIV's owner's manual.
It is except my understanding of "effects processor" is very limited. I guess I'm gonna try to split via a Boss DD-7 Digital Delay. I guess that will get me started?

joegold
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Re: Simul-Satellite

Post by joegold » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:36 am

Ashstrodamus wrote:
joegold wrote:
Ashstrodamus wrote:I recently bought one. I've got the Mark IV and Satellite each hooked to a 4x12. I don't want a bunch of effects....just delay and reverb. How do I get this rig "stereod" up? I'm a complete idiot to effects and processor setups....I've always ran the straight signal from my Mark IV. Will a Boss DD-7 get me a stereo setup? I have the brochure from the 90's that shows a mock up effects processor and how to hook the IV and the Simul-Sat together. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I think it's all described in the MKIV's owner's manual.
It is except my understanding of "effects processor" is very limited. I guess I'm gonna try to split via a Boss DD-7 Digital Delay. I guess that will get me started?
IIRC The MKIV has a Master mono out FX send and a set of stereo return jacks.
One of those returns goes directly to the MKIV's power amp.
The other sends the signal to the Satellite Out jack which you should connect to the Satellite's FX return jack on its back panel.
Then you have to adjust the Gain on the Sat's FX In and use the Sat's Mast Vol control to match the level with your MKIV.
Any stereoizing is done inside the effects you decide to connect in the loop.
E.g. Effects out L, goes to MKIV FX Return jack, Effects out R goes to the MKIV's other FX Return jack and then out to the Satellite via the Satellite out jack.
[I don't think the DD-7 has any effects algorithms that stereoize the signal though.
Try a stereo chorus effect instead.
I'm also not sure if the MKIV's loop is good for instrument level effects like stomp boxes.
Best to use line level effects probably.]

Hope that's all correct and that it's helpful.

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