Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Pre Recto days. Boogie modified Fenders, Mark I-IV, Dual Calibers, etc

Moderators: Guitarzan, Grandor, ned, Platypus

User avatar
Zoner
Mark III
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:48 am
Location: Twin Cities

Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Post by Zoner » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:29 am

My first time in a band situation with the IIC+ and I was a bit surprised by a few things to say the least. Running the first drive stage at 5 and the master about 4 made for MUCH less volume than my MkIII rig - with far less clean headroom to boot. Putting the master at 4 on the MkIII would be getting antisocial and might get some drumsticks tossed my way, but the IIC+ was not obnoxious at all at this level. I noticed there was a fair amount of grit present, too, where the III stays clear as a bell even jacking the first volume up into the 7 range. The IIC+ seemed to respond much better to pick attack and subtle volume knob or coil tapping changes and was much more fun in this mode when riding the line between clean and a little hairy. The QUALITY of the cleanish tones was also a very pleasant surprise. Where the MkIII is punchy and percussive, the IIC+ has a much sweeter, rounder, and more complex thing happening (crap, I sound like a freakin' wine snob!) and I was really, really happy with this tone. The dynamic response on this amp is really in a different ballpark. On the lead channel, the biggest difference I noticed between the IIC+ and the MkIII's I have been using for a few years is again, the pick response and dynamic characteristics that make playing so much fun. This amp is like a direct extension of my playing intensity - dig in, it barks and screams, back off and caress it a bit and it will sing a sweeter, softer, but still powerfully cool song. There is a certain "sag" to the notes, not such an immediate cannon shot like the III, and the tone was almost 3-D compared to what I am used to. I missed some of the hard-edged clarity of the III on a couple occasions, like when doing a few chord that were using several open strings in a more "complex" voicing (got a bit smeary and cluttered sounding) but just a tiny rolling back of the volume knob fixed that quickly. The singing quality and all the extra hamonic complexity made for a whole new experience that I am eager to dive into again. This amp actually sings! I haven't felt inspired by a piece of gear like this for quite some time.

The funniest part of this tale is how I came to have this opportunity in the first place. I have been through a crapload of Boogie gear in the almost 30 years I have been playing. Nomads, DC's, Maverick, Subways, Studio-Pre and Simul-Sat, etc. Never had a Recto because I didn't think it fit my style. Played a ton of other stuff, too, but kept circling back to the Mark series and the MkIII in particular. After hearing so much about the IIC+ and how "it is totally the Metallica tone, dude!", I figured it was not gonna do MY thing and besides, they are too outrageously expensive now anyways. Well, I strolled into a local shop and found a Simul-Class, E.V. equipped IIC+ with its quad of 415's, looking all cool in cream tolex with a cane grille, and saw an opportunity to flip it based on its seeminly low, low price. Little did I know it was what I had been looking for all this time. Folks, this amp is so much more than the scooped-mid MOP or DT sound, this amp is capable of almost anything and is totally deserving of the mystique that surrounds it. I have never heard an amp that does the tough clean/on the edge of breakup so well, with a lead channel that absolutely wails, then can do a tight, chunky rythmn tone just by backing off the volume a hair and changing your pick attack. Don't think of it as strictly a "metal" amp, because that really does the MkIIC+ a disservice. I wish everyone who wanted one could experience it and make it theirs. It is a musical instrument itself and feels like a direct connection to the expression of my very soul. Needless to say, it is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Sorry to be so long-winded but my mind was truly blown and I had to share with a group that might understand, because my wife just kinda rolls her eyes and says "yeah, I've heard that before". At least she likes the cream/wicker look. :wink: Z

User avatar
Boogiebabies
Road King
Posts: 4568
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:07 pm
Location: Korn's Bakery Brooklyn NY

Post by Boogiebabies » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:25 am

Your one of the few who have testified about the IIC+'s alternate nature.
It's got everything from twang, blues, fusion and insanity.

With humbuckers you have to watch the bass. Anything over 2 and it gets a bit flubby.

reo73
Mark III
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:24 pm

Post by reo73 » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:46 am

Great review...I had my Mark III Blue Stripe modded with the C+ mod a couple years back and a lot of what you desribed in your experience with the IIC+ is how I felt when I received my IIIC+ back from Mesa. I wonder if someone here has put a IIC+ and IIIC+ side by side...I am sure the IIC+ being the real thing has its advantages but I would like to know how close that gap really is?
Studio Pre & 50/50
Mesa F-30
Antone 2X12

sundaypunch
Mark III
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:52 am
Location: A pleasant peninsula

Post by sundaypunch » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:10 am

I had Mike B. do a IIIC+ conversion for me a couple of years ago. The amp didn't really sound better when I got it back, just different. I ended up selling it. To be fair, the new owner told me he re-tubed it and it made quite a difference.

I have a real C+ now and the difference is night and day. Personally I think there are too many differences in a Mark III to have it sound identical to a C+ after a conversion. The conversion may smooth it out a bit but I don't see someone confusing it with the real thing. That doesn't mean the IIIC+ won't sound great on it's own.

User avatar
Elpelotero
Road King
Posts: 4054
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 2:57 pm
Location: MIA, NYC, CA
Contact:

Post by Elpelotero » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:31 am

i love reading posts like this where someone actually "gets it" and sees the light
'92 Dual Recto Rev. D, Volume mod
'84 Mark IIC+ Coliseum
'85 Mark IIC++ DRG, V1 mod
Mesa Standard 4x12
1980's EV Thiele
Sold:
'92 Dual Recto Rev. C
'92 Dual Recto Rev. E
'05 Dual Recto 3ch
'84 Mark IIC+ DR
http://www.TheBoogieArchives.com

JOEY B.
Dual Recto
Posts: 2833
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:21 pm
Location: North Alabama C+ Mafia-Kingpin

Post by JOEY B. » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:56 pm

Putting the master at 4 on the MkIII would be getting antisocial and might get some drumsticks tossed my way
This reminds me of a drummer that I played briefly with years ago. He needed to find a way to "pay me back" for the insane volume that I subjected him to with my MkI. He brought an authentic chinese "china type" cymbal to practice one day. At the tail end of a song, he got his revenge, as it nearly took me to the ground. Sweet memories :D . I agree, the C+ is definately capable of more than the "metal" sound. It's a shame that it is only thought of as a "one trick pony" by some of the Boogie fans. :(
"One of these days, I'm gonna change my evil ways....... one of these days.

Stu Gutz
Mark II
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:23 pm

Re: Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Post by Stu Gutz » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:44 am

Zoner wrote:Folks, this amp is so much more than the scooped-mid MOP or DT sound, this amp is capable of almost anything and is totally deserving of the mystique that surrounds it. I have never heard an amp that does the tough clean/on the edge of breakup so well, with a lead channel that absolutely wails, then can do a tight, chunky rythmn tone just by backing off the volume a hair and changing your pick attack. Don't think of it as strictly a "metal" amp, because that really does the MkIIC+ a disservice.
Exactly Zoner! Well said!
Stu

User avatar
Zoner
Mark III
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:48 am
Location: Twin Cities

Post by Zoner » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:12 am

rabies wrote:Yo Zoner, did the IIC+ and III have the same tubes when you compared them? Is the III triode or pentode (green stripe)?
The IIC+ has STR415's and I have to wonder how much of the magic is a result of those tubes, but am hesitant to pop for a new set at $300 for a quad if I can get close with modern tubes. Mike C. says the current 440's are very close, so I may try them first The MkIII I am most familiar with is my old green stripe long head that I ran all Mesa tubes in and then went to a mix of E-H and GT, but I also have a blue striper and they don't seem to sound vastly different from each other, just different from the IIC+. The green striper seemed to have almost unlimited clean headroom and maybe a little better clean sound overall. The greenie also seemed to have a smoother lead channel. The blue has Mesa 440's and some GT and EH pre's. The preamp tubes in the IIC+ are Tung-sol and I have a feeling all the tubes are original, so there was a lot of difference in the tube setup. Z

mesanomad100
Donating Member
Posts: 919
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:04 pm
Location: scotland
Contact:

Post by mesanomad100 » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:38 pm

you metioned about really hearing the amp in the mix with a band,its a very different sound to the amp on its own dont you think?

You tweak it for hours then the bband playes and depending on your role you have to tweak again to get it sounding right,I always think mesa's especially sound better in the mix with a band,I sit right on top of the mix in my band near where the vox will sit so my main lead/dist channel on my 3 channel dual is very weak,high sounding with less bass so its right up there and when its time for balls to the wall crushing 3rd channel on modern then its bottom and treble with the middle cut back.............RECTO STYLE


On there own they sound great but not as good as you would have them tweeked if you were in the bedroom practising

Its very strange!!!!!
Current Gear
-Mesa dual rec 3 channel head(purple suede)
-Mesa 1x12" Theile(purple suede)
-Ernie Ball/Musicman JP6 Mystic dream with match. head/s
-Morley Little Alligator
-Crybaby535q
-Boss ce5-Boss dd6-Boss TU2
-EVH phase90
-Keeley TS-9 Baked

candletears7
Mark I
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Post by candletears7 » Sat May 19, 2018 8:04 pm

Zoner wrote:My first time in a band situation with the IIC+ and I was a bit surprised by a few things to say the least. Running the first drive stage at 5 and the master about 4 made for MUCH less volume than my MkIII rig - with far less clean headroom to boot. Putting the master at 4 on the MkIII would be getting antisocial and might get some drumsticks tossed my way, but the IIC+ was not obnoxious at all at this level. I noticed there was a fair amount of grit present, too, where the III stays clear as a bell even jacking the first volume up into the 7 range. The IIC+ seemed to respond much better to pick attack and subtle volume knob or coil tapping changes and was much more fun in this mode when riding the line between clean and a little hairy. The QUALITY of the cleanish tones was also a very pleasant surprise. Where the MkIII is punchy and percussive, the IIC+ has a much sweeter, rounder, and more complex thing happening (crap, I sound like a freakin' wine snob!) and I was really, really happy with this tone. The dynamic response on this amp is really in a different ballpark. On the lead channel, the biggest difference I noticed between the IIC+ and the MkIII's I have been using for a few years is again, the pick response and dynamic characteristics that make playing so much fun. This amp is like a direct extension of my playing intensity - dig in, it barks and screams, back off and caress it a bit and it will sing a sweeter, softer, but still powerfully cool song. There is a certain "sag" to the notes, not such an immediate cannon shot like the III, and the tone was almost 3-D compared to what I am used to. I missed some of the hard-edged clarity of the III on a couple occasions, like when doing a few chord that were using several open strings in a more "complex" voicing (got a bit smeary and cluttered sounding) but just a tiny rolling back of the volume knob fixed that quickly. The singing quality and all the extra hamonic complexity made for a whole new experience that I am eager to dive into again. This amp actually sings! I haven't felt inspired by a piece of gear like this for quite some time.

The funniest part of this tale is how I came to have this opportunity in the first place. I have been through a crapload of Boogie gear in the almost 30 years I have been playing. Nomads, DC's, Maverick, Subways, Studio-Pre and Simul-Sat, etc. Never had a Recto because I didn't think it fit my style. Played a ton of other stuff, too, but kept circling back to the Mark series and the MkIII in particular. After hearing so much about the IIC+ and how "it is totally the Metallica tone, dude!", I figured it was not gonna do MY thing and besides, they are too outrageously expensive now anyways. Well, I strolled into a local shop and found a Simul-Class, E.V. equipped IIC+ with its quad of 415's, looking all cool in cream tolex with a cane grille, and saw an opportunity to flip it based on its seeminly low, low price. Little did I know it was what I had been looking for all this time. Folks, this amp is so much more than the scooped-mid MOP or DT sound, this amp is capable of almost anything and is totally deserving of the mystique that surrounds it. I have never heard an amp that does the tough clean/on the edge of breakup so well, with a lead channel that absolutely wails, then can do a tight, chunky rythmn tone just by backing off the volume a hair and changing your pick attack. Don't think of it as strictly a "metal" amp, because that really does the MkIIC+ a disservice. I wish everyone who wanted one could experience it and make it theirs. It is a musical instrument itself and feels like a direct connection to the expression of my very soul. Needless to say, it is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Sorry to be so long-winded but my mind was truly blown and I had to share with a group that might understand, because my wife just kinda rolls her eyes and says "yeah, I've heard that before". At least she likes the cream/wicker look. :wink: Z
Would a MKIII Blue Stripe with the export transformer get me closer to those C+ dynamics or am I best off waiting for an export C+?
Being in Australia means I need that 240v.
Blue Stripe MKIII head
MK IVb long head
Vox AC30TB
Mesa cabs

Gibson, Fender, PRS and vintage EHX.

gts
Mark IV
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:09 pm
Location: Looking over the shoulder of the guy who lost his apples - not that he really ever had any to lose.

Re: Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Post by gts » Mon May 21, 2018 12:43 pm

candletears7 wrote:
Would a MKIII Blue Stripe with the export transformer get me closer to those C+ dynamics
NO
candletears7 wrote: or am I best off waiting for an export C+?
YES

s-fresh
Mark III
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:23 pm
Location: Hardwood Heaven
Contact:

Re: Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Post by s-fresh » Mon May 21, 2018 2:23 pm

An export IIC just sold on Bay Area craigslist for $650!!! No GEQ though.

candletears7
Mark I
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Post by candletears7 » Sat May 26, 2018 3:33 am

gts wrote:
candletears7 wrote:
Would a MKIII Blue Stripe with the export transformer get me closer to those C+ dynamics
NO
candletears7 wrote: or am I best off waiting for an export C+?
YES
I'm reading up that the Simul/X101 Blue Stripe (which is what I had) is the pick of the bunch for getting closest to the IIC+ dynamics.
I do miss that Blue Stripe. Awesome cleans and low gain sounds and the high gain was ferocious.
Blue Stripe MKIII head
MK IVb long head
Vox AC30TB
Mesa cabs

Gibson, Fender, PRS and vintage EHX.

GJgo
Mark III
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:38 am
Location: Western Colorado

Re: Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Post by GJgo » Thu May 31, 2018 8:37 pm

Having owned & played lots of Marks, the closest thing to a IIC+ is a IIB with Mike's loop mod. Next closest is a III red stripe, but IIIs are simply not as organic. Blue & green stripes are WAY more harsh. They were in response to what the big hair bands at the time wanted.

OP- you described the phenomenon very well. :) Does yours have the 105PT? If yes, you are limited on what power tubes you can run reliably since it cooks at around 500 PV. I've spoke to Mike about this a bit. STR440s can't hang. Since I don't want to drop $300-$500 on old 415s I run TAD 6L6GT-STRs and I'm happy with it. They're a modern 415 copy. I've gotten a few sets from The Tube Store & sorted out what bias value I need to get where the Simul needs to be.

gts
Mark IV
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:09 pm
Location: Looking over the shoulder of the guy who lost his apples - not that he really ever had any to lose.

Re: Put my MkIIC+ through its paces tonight-wow

Post by gts » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:46 pm

GJgo wrote: OP- you described the phenomenon very well. :) Does yours have the 105PT? If yes, you are limited on what power tubes you can run reliably since it cooks at around 500 PV.
OP's (Zoner) post was from 2007.
The thread got brought back form the dead by candletears7 a few weeks ago
Not sure Zoner will see your question or reply

Post Reply