First Post (Mark III content)

Hi all,

I've just bought a mark III blue stripe combo (Simul, EV, GEQ, Reverb). It's my first ever mark series, chosen partly based on info and opinions here, so thanks!

I've had it about a week, played one show with it at the weekend, and I've only just got the settings to where I'm happy with the tone and balance- it's certainly true that these take some tweaking. I'm running a tuner and noisegate in front and MXR 10-band in the loop; I found that the lead channel really benefits from the onboard GEQ but I'm using that for a mid/volume lead boost, and ignoring the R2 channel for now.

I've ordered a pair of Harma cryo 6L6GCs as the 6L6s are mismatched- 1 GT and 1 Phillips (!). Also ordered 2 x Harma cryo ECC83 (supposedly very similar to Mullards) and I've got some JJ ECC83S gold pins to play with so I'll let you know how I get on with them.

Thanks again!

Jona

Jona said:

I've ordered a pair of Harma cryo 6L6GCs as the 6L6s are mismatched- 1 GT and 1 Phillips (!).

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First, congratulations on your Mark III blue stripe. It does take some time and various stripe colors are all a little "special". Here is a link about them;

http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/dot.html

One thing I was told early on was to always buy the 6L6 and EL34 together so the power tube ratings are matched, unless you already knew what the EL34 ratings were. But, I am sure someone with more technical knowledge in this board can add to that or correct me if I am wrong.

Happy playing

Dennis

Thanks for the advice, I hadn't considered matching the EL-34s with the 6L6s, I guess because I've never had simul-class before.

On the other hand the EL-34s were replaced recently by the previous owner (<20hrs playing time), they're JJs. Also I have a quad of TAD EL34s sitting around AND a pair of Svetlanas in my Sovtek Mig-60 which I'm probably going to sell... I've got work to do!!

It's already sounding good with a total mish-mash in there, so I'm pretty excited about how it'll sound with the right combination.

Welcome to the board, and welcome to the Boogie!

There's a plethora of knowledge and opinions here, so have fun on your tonal journey! As far as tubes go, matching is definitely important. As far as brands - there is much to be said about the position of the preamp tube and which one you put where and which power tube combination you go with. Have fun!

6L6 and EL-34 tubes are very different, so can't be "matched" in any real sense. You can find Mesa branded pairs of each with the same colors but the colors serve only to match tubes in pairs.
Red EL-34s and Red 6L6s are still totally different animals, and Red EL-34s will work just fine with Green 6L6s.
Power tubes are matched in pairs because they work in pairs. In a Mark III, they are arranged like this:
X-Y-Y-X
an inner pair and an outer pair. The "X" pair need to match, and the "Y" pair need to match.
Mark III tubes are tasked thusly:
V1 = First 12AX7 pre-amp tube, closest to the input jack.
The guitar signal goes here first.
V2 = Next 12AX7 in line. This one amplifies the signal after the tone controls.
V3 = Next to V2. The LEAD sound comes from this 12AX7.
V4 = Next to V3. Reverb tube. Also 12AX7.
V5 = 12AX7 Phase Inverter, or Driver. Between V4 and the power tubes. This is the interface between the pre-amp and the power amp. There's lots of cork-sniffing opinion that this tube should "match" internally (all pre-amp tubes have two itty-bitty amplifiers inside them). YMMV.

Killer amp!

Welcome to the funhouse! Come in, stay awhile. :twisted:

MrMarkIII said:

6L6 and EL-34 tubes are very different, so can't be "matched" in any real sense. You can find Mesa branded pairs of each with the same colors but the colors serve only to match tubes in pairs.
Red EL-34s and Red 6L6s are still totally different animals, and Red EL-34s will work just fine with Green 6L6s.
Power tubes are matched in pairs because they work in pairs. In a Mark III, they are arranged like this:
X-Y-Y-X
an inner pair and an outer pair. The "X" pair need to match, and the "Y" pair need to match.
Mark III tubes are tasked thusly:
V1 = First 12AX7 pre-amp tube, closest to the input jack.
The guitar signal goes here first.
V2 = Next 12AX7 in line. This one amplifies the signal after the tone controls.
V3 = Next to V2. The LEAD sound comes from this 12AX7.
V4 = Next to V3. Reverb tube. Also 12AX7.
V5 = 12AX7 Phase Inverter, or Driver. Between V4 and the power tubes. This is the interface between the pre-amp and the power amp. There's lots of cork-sniffing opinion that this tube should "match" internally (all pre-amp tubes have two itty-bitty amplifiers inside them). YMMV.

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Thanks Mr.MarkIII!

That's kinda what I suspected RE. the output valves, and all the EL-34s I have are in matched pairs so I shouldn't have a problem there, except in deciding which pair to use

That preamp rundown looks really useful too, I hadn't seen it laid out like that before. I do have a 'balanced' JJ ECC83S to go in the PI position, although I too am dubious about the perceptible difference between that and an 'unbalanced' valve of the same brand.

After Christmas I think I'll have to stay late at the practice space one night so I can try them all out and crank it up fully to really hear the difference. It's probably next to pointless trying to do this at bedroom levels.

Jona said:

Hi all,

I've just bought a mark III blue stripe combo (Simul, EV, GEQ, Reverb). It's my first ever mark series, chosen partly based on info and opinions here, so thanks!

I've had it about a week, played one show with it at the weekend, and I've only just got the settings to where I'm happy with the tone and balance- it's certainly true that these take some tweaking. I'm running a tuner and noisegate in front and MXR 10-band in the loop; I found that the lead channel really benefits from the onboard GEQ but I'm using that for a mid/volume lead boost, and ignoring the R2 channel for now.

I've ordered a pair of Harma cryo 6L6GCs as the 6L6s are mismatched- 1 GT and 1 Phillips (!). Also ordered 2 x Harma cryo ECC83 (supposedly very similar to Mullards) and I've got some JJ ECC83S gold pins to play with so I'll let you know how I get on with them.

Thanks again!

Jona

Click to expand...

Welcome and congrats.

I actually have a IIC+ not a III, they have a lot in common so I'll reply anyway but bare that in mind.

Yeah sort out the power tube mismatch.

I found in my amp it sounds pretty the same no matter which tubes I use. So to save the original Mesa 415 (Sylvania's) I pulled them out and just use current model Mesa 6L6's.

If you don't have the manual I reckon it's worth getting: http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%20III.pdf

Never worry all Boogie's can sound bad - but then again all those recordings and bands are using them and getting first class tone - so don't loose heart all those sounds are in there.

I agree forget R2, it's hard to make all 3 channels happy.

"Start with everything on 12 o'clock" might work for other amps - BUT NOT for classic Boogies.

Not sure what styles you play but if this was a shop demo I'd start with:
GAIN 7. TREBLE 7. MID,BASS,PRES all on 3. EQ=OFF and pull all the pots out. If you have a big 4x12 then maybe keep the deep one in.

Just note - treble is absolutely essential to shaping the overall sound of a Boogie, it changes the overall amp sound.

At this point you should have a very good Fender style clean which will break up if you hit harder, switch between humbuckers/single-coils, and definitely play with guitar volume . Think classic Dire Straits (and thousands of others).

You should also have a pretty thick Boogie LEAD. It's thicker with the EQ off. I only use that sound for certain solos, it's too mid-rangy for crunch/rhythms/chords.

I use the Graphics EQ to shape my crunch/rhythms/chord sound, the famous "V" shape. And not as a "boost for lead", IMHO boogies don't need any boosting for lead.

Any volume level issues can be sorted out with a clean boost pedal, an external EQ or I love to use a Volume Pedal in the FX loop.

Don't be afraid to have some dials on 0 and some on 10, this is not too unusual in boogie land.

See how you go, I'm sure people here will be happy to share settings and stuff - but we need to know exactly what kind of sound you're after and what type of guitar/pickups you have etc etc....

Hope that helps (someone).

Cheers.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

The basic tones I need are:

1. Clean as possible, 'sparkly' I suppose but with enough mid to cut through (specifically for ska rhythms). I don't mind a tiny bit of grit when I really dig in.

2. Heavy rhythm, tight with lots of gain and chuggy palm mutes.

3. Shreddy lead, compressed and mid-heavy for powerful taps etc. preferably with some reverb or delay. Crucially must be louder than (2) to sit above the mix.

Also I like to be able to footswitch between all channels using the minimum floor space; no big pedal board. So I've set up the mk.III for clean/heavy rhythm, using the MXR with a slight scoop all the time (it also works as a more linear master volume control), and switching in the onboard EQ (inverted V) and reverb to achieve my 'lead channel'. All pedals are on a small board which sits on top of the amp, I've used this approach for years with different rigs and really like it.

So when I say "boost" I don't mean in the normal sense of using an OD or clean boost in front to get more gain, more a simple volume and mid bump to make solos stand out. In fact I tried my modded SD-1 in front and if anything it just added more mud, compared to the Sovtek which it really brings to life.

PS. Guitars:

Parker Nitefly-M with Bareknuckle Painkiller in the bridge and Dimarzio PAF-Pro in the neck.

Self-built ash Tele with a Warmoth neck, Bareknuckle Nailbomb (HB) in the bridge and BK piledriver (SC) in the neck.

I also have a 2x12 Zilla cab with V30s but I'm a little reluctant to haul both cab and combo to gigs; the idea was to downsize! So I may end up building a head shell and keeping the 2x12... Probably a topic for a different thread.

The other half of the Mark equation is definitely the guitar.

I turn to my basswood Ibanez guitars with Dimarzios for the sparkle/shred, and my mahogany guitars (PRS, mostly, new Gibson coming up) for the heavy chug and more "round" or vintage sounds. You'll find sweet spots all over the amp though where your favorite guitar/s can shine all over though! As Ryder said, the volume knob is -definitely- your friend! I'm not much of a strat/tele player these days, but i'm sure the strat guys on here can chime in on that one! (Tele's are in general a good all around weapon, like a good LP!)

SonicProvocateur said:

The other half of the Mark equation is definitely the guitar.

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Big ups on that one.

My favorite for awhile now has been using the push/pull control (pulled) on my PRS. It adds a NICE top end bite that cuts hard, yet still retains punch, warmth and clarity. It kind of reminds me of the Bill Lawrence L500XLs. These are the stock HFS pups, but with these amps they're no joke.

Jona said:

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

The basic tones I need are:

1. Clean as possible, 'sparkly' I suppose but with enough mid to cut through (specifically for ska rhythms). I don't mind a tiny bit of grit when I really dig in.

2. Heavy rhythm, tight with lots of gain and chuggy palm mutes.

3. Shreddy lead, compressed and mid-heavy for powerful taps etc. preferably with some reverb or delay. Crucially must be louder than (2) to sit above the mix.

Also I like to be able to footswitch between all channels using the minimum floor space; no big pedal board. So I've set up the mk.III for clean/heavy rhythm, using the MXR with a slight scoop all the time (it also works as a more linear master volume control), and switching in the onboard EQ (inverted V) and reverb to achieve my 'lead channel'. All pedals are on a small board which sits on top of the amp, I've used this approach for years with different rigs and really like it.

So when I say "boost" I don't mean in the normal sense of using an OD or clean boost in front to get more gain, more a simple volume and mid bump to make solos stand out. In fact I tried my modded SD-1 in front and if anything it just added more mud, compared to the Sovtek which it really brings to life.

Click to expand...

Ha ha, that was my original spec too (still is).

1. CLEAN - yes do clean first!

But "clean" is actually an allusion. One of the most sort after "sparkly" cleans is the Blackface Fender "clean" - but the irony is they're not clean at all - when you hit hard they will grit up as you say - and because it doesn't crunch like a Marshall or Boogie the illusion of cleanness remains in tact.

I mean compare that to the CBS era Fender when the executives swore "we must stop this distortion at all cost" - well sure they really stopped it (Silverface) - and everyone hated it.

To get the Blackface "sparkly" clean - I have my Gain on 8 and Treble at about 8.5 or 9! That is pretty muddy and actually a very usable sound in its own right but that's another story. Meantime, the BIG SECRET is roll the guitar volume back to stay under the grit radar. And yeah if you hit hard it'll be more "expressive" / erh gritty but by and large everyone will be calling it "a great clean". It really does sound "clean", I love it.

Granted - if you really want a sterile clean clean then roll the Gain and probably Treble back to about 5 but then the overall amp including the lead channel will have less dirt and you may need to compensate with a a mild OD or something...

But reading between the lines I'll bet we're talking about a Blackface type "clean" so give that a shot .

I reckon you should sort this sound out first and then I"ll bet the other two just fall into place.


2 . HEAVY RHYTHM - You mean like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRYXvpJcY9o&feature=related

OR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=getPcpCjuRE&list=UUScyYzlb4XHmQpPjLmwx-Ng&index=4&feature=plcp

Boogie Mark III with EMGs and EQ ... and some tasty chops. (Recto closed 2x12 cab with V30s). If you use the 1x12 then "Pull-For-Deep".


3. SHREDDING LEAD -
Well this is the biggest difference between the C+ and III - the III shreds more ... again you should have no trouble here. Especially if you have gain and treble on about 8 as per the clean sound discussion.


VOLUMES?
Have you tried setting the amp's EQ to the V and the external one for a volume boost either totally flat but raised or something like that? I've seen inverted "V"'s in Boogie's and if it works for you then end of subject but try it this way as well see which one you like better, ie Amp-EQ=V, External-EQ=flat-ish and just raised for volume ...


Hope that helps - keep tweaking

Cheers.

Yeah I agree that a great clean tone doesn't have to mean "will not break up under any circumstances"- it's a balance, with this amp more than any I've previously owned. Currently I've got the vol.1 around 7, but I must admit that for if I didn't need clean it would be on 10.

As for volumes, I really want to keep my pedal board on top of the amp and switch between sounds using the external footswitches- I'm in an 8 piece band so stage room is at a premium! Also I'm getting good results this way round so I think it's the way to go.

I have another thread I just started this week concerning taking my Mark III to Mike Bendinelli when I was in Petaluma. One of the many things that came up were power tubes and the ratings for my simul-class Mark III. I stand corrected here in this thread and by Mike that the two center tubes can be a different rating than the two outer tubes; I wanted to check with Mike to be safe and - yep I was mis-informed. He said I could use Mesa 6L6 in the outer sockets but they should be color coded RED due to the higher heat in Class A sockets of my Mark (& my .50 Cal's EL84s). However, using the EL34s were better and said above their YELLOW rating the tubes might just wear out faster due to heat. The center 6L6 could be any color though he did suggests yellow or green at the most. I have been using GREEN in all my Mesa amps. Again, these were just Mike's suggestions. :wink:

I am going to see hoe this pans out the next time I change out the power tubes.

Just thought I would share. :?

Dennis

Congrats on the amp man! Great lead tones & cleans.

I didnt care at all for the JJECC83S anywhere in my mark III. Save yourself the time & get 2 tungsram(v1-2) & 1 RFT(v3) off of ebay. That is a proven preamp config. Duet of winged c 6L6's & EL-34's for the poweramp. IMO quality tubes make all the difference at band volumes.

I believe the blue stripe is the brightest of the the mark III's. If you would like a smoother lead tone, look into the c30 mod. It is part or all (i dont know) of the III+ mod which steers the III closer to the IIc+ sound.

ltd2recto said:

Congrats on the amp man! Great lead tones & cleans.

I didnt care at all for the JJECC83S anywhere in my mark III. Save yourself the time & get 2 tungsram(v1-2) & 1 RFT(v3) off of ebay. That is a proven preamp config. Duet of winged c 6L6's & EL-34's for the poweramp. IMO quality tubes make all the difference at band volumes.

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+1 on ALL those tube recommendations.

ltd2recto said:

I believe the blue stripe is the brightest of the the mark III's. If you would like a smoother lead tone, look into the c30 mod. It is part or all (i dont know) of the III+ mod which steers the III closer to the IIc+ sound.

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Here I'd like to mention that experimenting with both preamp and power tubes will get you into that 'smoother' territory just as well. I've been playing around with a blue stripe and have had great results changing/swapping around tubes. It just takes some experimenting to get it just right - which is all in the fun anyways.

Lay back on the 'presence'.