Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Mark I's, II's, III's and the almight IV

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cadprof3
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Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by cadprof3 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:29 am

Let’s try to figure out how many of each type were made. We might not be able to get an exact, for certain number, but I bet we can get a pretty damn good estimate as to how many of the 86 Cs and C+s were made of each type.

If we know that the serial numbers for the Mark IIC/C+ K series run from K337-K422, then all we would need to do is find out if there is a clean cutoff from Cs to C+s and at what number that occurs. Maybe there are crossover numbers where Cs was made after a C+s?

I bet we can, at the very least, get a decent starting idea of how many were made from what we have/who we know. It may not be exact, but we can get a ballpark number and tighten it up as info pops up. Ya never know, we might get lucky and find a magic cutoff number.

To start, we need:
The earliest Mark IIC+ K series serial number we can turn up
The latest Mark IIC K series serial number we can turn up

Let’s start here, from what I’ve seen on the board, the earliest C+ K series I found was K395, and the latest C was K355, so if there are a total of 86 Mark II C/C+s, we now know for sure that there are at least 27 C+ s, at least 18 Cs, leaving 41 in the question zone.

So now we need to know if anybody knows/has a C/C+ between the serial numbers K356-K394 to narrow it down further. Anyone want to help tighten these numbers up so we can get a better idea as to the production split?

If I’ve missed something, please chime in.

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by SpongeRob » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:14 pm

Personally i don't know if there is a split in the C/C+ Coliseum production like in the Normal IIC/IIC+ Amps (12,500-15000) as stated on the Boogie Files with the Pre IIC+ Production from i think 12300-12499. I thought it was just a IIC Coliseum which could be ordered with or without the "+". Correct me if i'm wrong.

Actually i think this thread could really help to answer this question. My C+ Coli is in the K4xx Range. GTS owns a IIC+ Coli with 5 digit Serial, which means there should be even more IIC/IIC+ Coliseum Amps out there. If there's a IIC above K395 this would also mean that there is no production split. Let's figure this out.

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by SpongeRob » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:33 pm

K365 IIC Coliseum. Found on this board.

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by Elpelotero » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:36 pm

K371 here
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Sold:
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http://www.TheBoogieArchives.com

cadprof3
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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by cadprof3 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:50 pm

SpongeRob wrote:K365 IIC Coliseum. Found on this board.
Very cool SpongeRob! Ever see a C+ with a lower serial number?
Maybe I'm wrong (definitely wouldn't be the first time), but I believe the C/C+ thing was a subtle production change rather than an option like the rest of the Mark IICs. Let's see if we turn up a low number C+ or a high number C. That should give us a better idea, or at least confuse me more than I already am. :)

I definitely read what you were saying about gts' 5 digit serial. Sounds like it might be an anomaly (a cool one) maybe they only had regular blank long chassis at the beginning/end of Mk IIC production (with Mk III tooling up) or maybe they simply ran out in the middle and used what was immediately available and put the jumbo transformers and cut the socket holes and made it. It does seem very unique and rare. Whatever it is, it's pretty cool. Was his a C or a C+? gts?

If I'm on track with this, SpongeRobs puts us at at least 28Cs, at least 27 C+s, 31 we gotta sees, and at least 1 anomaly (and my vote for rarest Boogie). :D

cadprof3
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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by cadprof3 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:55 pm

Elpelotero wrote:K371 here
Hey Elpelotero!
I read about you having Ethel. Glad you chimed in! 8)
That narrows it down a bunch! Thanks!
That means, assuming this is something close to reality, that there are at least 28 Cs, at least 51 C+s, 7 we gotta sees, and 1 anamoly (I think one of the 7).

So we need info on K366 - K370.

*Interesting note K422-K337 = 85 units + 1 anomaly = 86 C/C+s. Seems to add up.

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by zodiac272 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:16 am

Hey, not a coli owner, but I'm pretty sure gts's coli was a KR IIC... he offered it for sale, or just was asking for a feeler if anyone wanted to buy it. from what I have read, the coli pkg was an upgrade, just like adding GEQ or reverb. I also think they stamped the serial # when the chassis was ready for the cabinet install, which would lead me to believe a 5 digit SN would have been an upgrade after the factory. So I don't believe the coli was a production change. back in the day, when you called boogie to order a mark series, you could have added it just like any other option... starting with mk IIB through the mk III.

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by SpongeRob » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:29 am

Yeah, reading the add, gts state it has a regular "IIC" 5 digit number. So this should be some kind of upgrade. My IIC+ Coli has a Mark III Plate on the back with a correct Serial Number and a "+" above the cord on the chassis. So this mean my was made in the era where Boogie already produce the Mark III Models. The hardware is still original. Hope this could help to get some infos about the IIC Coliseum Series.

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by cadprof3 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:14 pm

zodiac272 wrote:Hey, not a coli owner, but I'm pretty sure gts's coli was a KR IIC... he offered it for sale, or just was asking for a feeler if anyone wanted to buy it. from what I have read, the coli pkg was an upgrade, just like adding GEQ or reverb. I also think they stamped the serial # when the chassis was ready for the cabinet install, which would lead me to believe a 5 digit SN would have been an upgrade after the factory. So I don't believe the coli was a production change. back in the day, when you called boogie to order a mark series, you could have added it just like any other option... starting with mk IIB through the mk III.

scott
Hey scott,
Thanks for the info! I see what you’re saying about the serial numbers and stamping. Makes sense, but I don’t think they’d stamp them just before cab install. Instead of stamping the chassis when they put it in the cabinet, they likely affixed the adhesive backed metal plate w/serial # at the beginning when the chassis was assigned its specs and went into assembly. That would actually be one of the first things done in most manufacture settings to keep track of each order throughout production, especially in small companies that make stuff a la carte like Boogie. This way they knew to put SimulClass, EQ, reverb, etc. in the amp for a particular customer and be able to keep it straight through manufacture. If every amp was the same, you could slap the serial at the end and it wouldn’t make much of a difference.

Keep in mind that Boogie was a small company then and likely pre ordered the silkscreened adhesive backed metal plates from an outside vendor with a given range of numbers already stamped. Then, hopefully, in numerical order, they would assign a numbered plate to a customer order. It’d be too hard to stamp them after they were on the chassis and still keep track of the order or not dent the chassis. I could be wrong to any degree with Boogie specifically, but that’s how it’s usually done. That’s a lot of work & tooling investment for a, then, small company to do otherwise.

As for gts 5 digit serial number, they could have ran out of K series plates and used what they had until the vendor delivered the next order. Stuff happens. There are so many differences between a regular Mark and a Coliseum that I don’t think it likely, though certainly not impossible, that his is an upgrade. It’s not like an upgrade going from a C to a C+. There’s a lot of stuff that’s different. They’d basically be remanufacturing that thing. I could be wrong on that. Could be something completely different like a prototype, customer order change, etc. as well. Whatever happened, it’s rare, but that’s what makes it extra unique.

It also seems to fit the production numbers we’ve been given. K337-K422 = 85 units + gts’s amp =86 total. That's a bit of speculation of course.

As far as the “option” part. Yes, the Coliseum was offered as an ordering option but Boogie certainly considers it a completely different production model. They designated it completely differently (the K series) and giving it a completely different serial number series from the other production Marks. I look at their production terms this way; “Mark” is the family (branding) name, “I”, “II”, “III”, etc, refers to manufacture series under that family, “B”, “C”, “C+”, “Coliseum” are the models within the manufacture series. I think C+ would probably be closer a version than a model under this train of thought. Looks like the changes weren’t significant enough to justify calling it a “Mark IID”, but I digress… :)

To me, an “option” would be EQ, cabinetry, ½ power switch, reverb, etc. The Coliseums have a different power section, monster transformer, ass’t boards, and the chassis, though it probably starts the exactly same as the regular long Mk IIs, is processed differently during manufacture (at least enough to accommodate the 2 extra 6L6s & tranny).

That being said, there are also enough similarities and shared parts (preamp, faceplate, cabinet, etc), that I could certainly see someone considering it to be an option. We are talking about Mark amps, so I guess it would depend on how you look at it.

cadprof3
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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by cadprof3 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:28 pm

SpongeRob wrote:Personally i don't know if there is a split in the C/C+ Coliseum production like in the Normal IIC/IIC+ Amps (12,500-15000) as stated on the Boogie Files with the Pre IIC+ Production from i think 12300-12499. I thought it was just a IIC Coliseum which could be ordered with or without the "+". Correct me if i'm wrong.

Actually i think this thread could really help to answer this question. My C+ Coli is in the K4xx Range. GTS owns a IIC+ Coli with 5 digit Serial, which means there should be even more IIC/IIC+ Coliseum Amps out there. If there's a IIC above K395 this would also mean that there is no production split. Let's figure this out.
Hey SpongeRob,
So far, I don't think we've seen a high number C. You having a K4XX with the MkIII plate makes sense for a small manufacturer like Boogie. They were probably at a transition point in product (see my rant on metal # plates in my last post).

I really think gts's is a production anomoly of some sort like I said in the last post. To me, his fits in with the production numbers we've been told (86).

Let's keep our eyes open and see if any other unique ones pop up. If we saw another 2 like the one gts has (5 digit), I'd seriously rethink my opinion as to how many were made.

To gts: I hope it's cool that we're discussing your very unique amp like this. If not, I apologise.

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by zodiac272 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:59 pm

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Boogie 4x12 Cream Halfback

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by cadprof3 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:19 pm

Hey scott,
I did. That's where I first read the K series C/C+ serials being from K337-K422. When I got mine a few years back, that was where I found the info confirming it was a C+. Awesome info.

Was there something in particular there I might have missed or you think might be helpful?
Thanks!

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by zodiac272 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:33 pm

no, just in case you missed those pages...

scott
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Mark IIC+ HRG
Mesa 2:90
Digitech GSP2101
ESP JH-2 Explorer
LTD Explorer
Ibanez S-540
Boogie 1x12 Thiele, 1x12 Compact Cab
Boogie 4x12 Cream Halfback

cadprof3
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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by cadprof3 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:44 pm

zodiac272 wrote:no, just in case you missed those pages...

scott
Thanks scott. I actually went over it a little bit again after you mentioned it. It's still a good read! :)

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Re: Coliseum Mark II C/C+ production number research

Post by LPClassic » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:25 pm

I don't know if this helps given the numbers already there but mine is K359 and is a IIC.
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