Speculation about Youtube videos and reality (C+ content)

Can you feel the G-forces as this car launches? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33bZ9JmjH2Q&feature=related I didn't think so. I had a heavily modified 650+HP 1969 Chevelle SS that would open the glove box just like the video. Your eyeballs would feel like they were being shoved backwards when the trans-brake was let loose. As a comparison, youtube videos do not capture the mojo of the MESA/Boogie Mark IIC+ as it is in reality. It is something that one has to experience firsthand. It will do much more than what is shown in most of the videos. Sadly, blind perception will be the "judgement" of this amp for many people all over the world. :evil:

Your right,so why do people post vids at all on this forum?people know it's just for reference!

bartchamdoh said:

Your right,so why do people post vids at all on this forum?people know it's just for reference!

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Many people don't.

I bought a Mark III based completely off clips I heard online. Most of which were youtube clips. Even though you cant "feel the g forces" you can sure use what you hear as a good baseline. Im not going to get into any hype over mark III vs Mark IIC+ but i will say that "based" on what recordings I heard based on MY experience, there isnt THAT much of a difference, at least one that keeps going on like this. While its true that it takes a good guitarist to make an amp sing, that same type of guitarist will be able to make ANY amp sing. As far as comparing those 2 amps, ANY good guitarist will make each one of them sound good, just like any crappy guitar player will make them both sound like crap. This constant comparison is like beating a dead horse because it is a fully subjective topic. Comparing an amp where there are such minute differences in the lead channel is getting rediculous if you ask me.

Me, I could have bought a IIC+ when i was looking for something different from the Bogner Fish I had. I was looking at something more aggressive (both IIC+ and III were) that still had the note definition when playing chords (again, both the IIC+ and the III do that). Now, Im not a great player by any means but I do like a usable clean and usable distortion. I liked the tone I was hearing from BOTH the IIC+ and the III as they were both VERY similiar. The III seemed like the better choice because...

1. It sounded a bit more aggressive than the IIC+ in a Slayer type way instead of a Metallica type way.

2. It was 3 channels and not 2. While I heard both amps makes the clean unusable when dialed for searing heavy distortion on the lead channel, I heard more clips where the lead was dialed in heavy and still had usable clean on the III. I didnt really hear anything like that from teh IIC+ but instead another amp was used for clean, which means throwing even more money at a rig.

3. and most importantly of all, the pricetag. While I saw most of the IIC+s in the $2000+ range, the III was under a grand in just about every ad I saw.

4. I will be able to buy a new guitar with the cash I save if I go with the III.

So, to me, the choice was simple. Do I need to spend an extra 1500-2000 bucks on an amp that has only slight differences in feel and tone or do I save a little, I mean aLOT of cash and take a chance on the III? I did jsut that, did my research on the most aggressive stripe of the bunch and found a 1 owner, fully loaded blue stripe head for under a grand that came with ALL pedals and original paperwork AND had recently had a 20 yr service by Mesa. I couldnt be happier with the III as it has pretty much all the qualities I need for the style of music I play (thrash). While the IIC+ would probably be able to give me the same satisfaction, the III was cheaper and still makes me smile from ear to ear every time I plug into it. Dont really see the need to spend thousands more on a rig that wont make me smile any bigger as there isnt any room left on my face for that.

So, as a IIC+ cork sniffer once told me on a different forum, "Dont overlook the Mark III as it is a VERY underrated amp and can do just about everything the IIC+ can do, and then some."


So, in short a clip will only give you a taste of what an amp can do. THis goes for both the IIC+ and the III. Both have more to offer than the clips suggest so why fight over it. Seems to me both sides of the railroad track will defend what thier amps can do "in person" so why argue about this? Lets just leave it at this. Both amps are great for what they can do, whether they can do what the other can do is besides the point. When saying the IIC+ is better is rediculous. What exactly is it better at? Like me, the III gives me what I want so to ME the III is better because of this. Better at what? Its better at matching what i hear in my head, just as the IIC+ matches what some of you hear in your head. Its all the same. As long as they make you happy, who cares.

Facelift: You make many valid points, but the topic is not concerned with the relative merits of the C+ versus the III (Lord knows there are countless threads dabating this!). The issue is that a video can't capture the real specialness of the C+, which by many accounts (including mine) is the feel of the amp that really distinguishes it. As you may know, this topic has received much attention lately because a board member was requesting videos to help understand the C+ "mystique". The C+ owners were explaining that a video cannot supply that information as it is experiential. To demonstrate the point, JoeyB originated this thread with an example of how a video cannot capture the experience. Some may think this is b.s., but the C+ owners (some of whom own/have owned IIIs) stand by this.

If you notice, I did not mention anything about a C+ vs. III in my post. The Mark IIC+ is definately NOT the perfect Mark series Boogie for everyone. I have said it on more than one occasion. The post was about the video vs. reality. If the right recording technique was used, a person might not be able to audibly distinguish a 75 watt Mark III from a 150 watt Mark III Coliseum in a video. Up close and in person, the two amps have similar tone, but the feel is quite a bit "stiffer" with the 150 watter. Running two 75 watt Mark III's in stereo still does not have the same effect. It is all about the power supply and power transformer. Watching some of the drag race videos made me have an "adrenaline flashback", then I remembered how much money that race fuel and tires cost. One expensive hobby at a time.:wink:

+1 facelift pretty much how i feel about things.

Yeah, I think we ALL know how you feel.

I think the issue of video not portraying reality applies to all amps. Especially when it concerns the responsiveness and feel of an amp. I have played and owned several amps and when I see YouTube vids of some of those models I smile because I remember what it was like playing them, remembering feeling what I liked and didn't about the responsiveness and vibe. It's true that all amps respond differently and much of it depends on the player as well.

bartchamdoh said:

+1 facelift pretty much how i feel about things.

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+1 I agree with many of the views that "Facelift" has, as well. The point of the matter is that I would not let any youtube video convince me to trade my Mark II for a blackface Fender. I would also not let a video convince me of the worth of a Dumble ODS, without playing one first. 8)

When I decided to venture into Mark territory, from a lot of reading the C+ seemed right for me. Because they're not readily available, I had to use YouTube videos to get an idea of the tone. I did find some vids that impressed me (John P, Rich B, a few others). I think they gave a good basic impression of the amp's character if you can't play one personally. On the other hand, when I got the real thing, that's when you find out a lot you don't get from a video... the responsiveness to pick attack, the way a sustained note beautifully morphs into musical feedback effortlessly as I turn toward the amp, and most importantly for me, the way the tone cuts through in a live band... always well defined, full, warm and never shrill (almost sounds like a beer commercial...). Sorry for gushing a bit, but these are all things I learned after playing the amp for real, that a video couldn't show me.

In any case, I had to buy without having played one, and YouTube was a starting point. I just think you need to realize it's not a guarantee... you won't know for sure until you play it for real. I've bought other amps based on what I thought were nice vids, and they didn't pan out. Buy with a return policy whenever possible.

When I bought my Mark III, I had only owned a Recto (which to me was the closest to a Diezel I could buy at the time which was my "ideal amp"). I played the Mark III and was actually totally unimpressed with the way it sounded because it was a non-EQ. It was flat, kinda lifeless, but I heard what I needed to hear - "the mark tone". Buried in the tight articulation somewhere I knew I could find it. So 5 days later I bought a graphic EQ and I thought the amp was going to explode it sounded so amazing when I first sculpted out the "V". Granted, I worked as a Mesa retailer and played Mesa's all day long, so I knew how to squeeze every ounce of tone out of it, but I was genuinely surprised at how well I could carve up badassness from the Mark III. It was the dang closest thing to a IIC+ I could get from every recording of a IIC+ i'd ever heard, even Victor (phyrexia) who sold it to me wanted to buy it back because he said his green stripe (that he offered to sell me) didn't sound as awesome.

I've played and owned I don't know how many amps, but for sure you have to touch and interact with it to experience it, just like Joey said. Even listening to professional recordings of them don't do justice to alot of them; many days I find it a struggle to get my III to record "perfect", much less a cellphone quality YouTube video. Professional recordings are often re-EQ'd, overcompressed, and then recompressed 11:1 or higher via a media format (mp3, etc). Tonal and sonic quality is reduced and impeded. To restate what Joey has said; I too love the g-forces from my all wheel drive Subaru and a video won't capture that nor the magic of complex tube tone. Just watch something like the premierguitar high gain amp test with Misha Mansoor and Ty Dietzler, or the 2010 LA Amp Fest. They all sound really similar, when we all know not-YouTube-world, they are amazing pieces of machine. Just doesn't give you the "feel" hearing it on small speakers.