Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Mark I's, II's, III's and the almight IV

Moderators: Guitarzan, Grandor, ned, Platypus

kippiejr
Mark III
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:56 pm

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by kippiejr » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:02 pm

To me i think your missing the point of the gain. Its not the amount of gain that you experience in the + to ++ but its structure of it. Heck my V mini has more gain in mark IV mod than my ++, But the + and ++ have that mellow sag to the gain that is "one of a kind." +'s have it, ++'s have a bit more.
"Gone to the Mark side of the force."

decker
Mark I
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:39 am

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by decker » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:26 pm

Thanks for this clarification.

decker
Mark I
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:39 am

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by decker » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:14 am

Could it be possible to hear what a IIC++ sounds like ? Could someone post a guitar part in normal IIC+ sound and the same thing in C++ mod. I assume it is easy to switch between normal and ++ mod of course.


Thanks.

kippiejr
Mark III
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:56 pm

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by kippiejr » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:26 pm

There are only a hand full of C+ to C++'s that can do just that on the fly.. If you send a C+ to mike now a days to be ++'ed it will most likely only be ++ now..
"Gone to the Mark side of the force."

User avatar
themisfit138
Mark III
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:01 am

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by themisfit138 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:03 pm

decker wrote: One (last) question : does the Mark IIC++ have more or less gain than the Mark IV ?
The Mark IIC++ still has less gain than my Blue Stripe and the Mark IV. Like kippiejr said it is just more of what the IIC+ does well. Mike B. told me before I got the mod done, If you like what the C+ does but want just a little more out of it, that is what the ++ mod is for.
1985 Mark IIC++
1989 Mark III Blue Combo
1991 Mark IV Short Head

User avatar
Markedman
Donating Member
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, CT

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by Markedman » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:58 am

Could it be possible to hear what a IIC++ sounds like ? Could someone post a guitar part in normal IIC+ sound and the same thing in C++ mod. I assume it is easy to switch between normal and ++ mod of course.

jemwiz00 and I will do a short comparison video hopefully this Sunday of a Mark IIC+ SRG and a Mark IIC++ DG. I have the tubes that came with the C++ still in it. The C+ tubes are really nice so this will be a good comparison IMO. Plus, we have matching cabinets! I have a feeling I can nail the SRG tone exact, then the C++ goes from there to 11 or more, you'll see. It's gonna be fun!!
JP2C, Mark llC++ DG, Mark IV-A/B.

User avatar
Elpelotero
Road King
Posts: 4054
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 2:57 pm
Location: MIA, NYC, CA
Contact:

Post by Elpelotero » Mon May 09, 2016 7:17 pm

Simul IIC++ VS. Coliseum C+

I've been back home as of late with time on my hands to compare my two IIC+'s.

The Coliseum has an incredible amount of tightness and punch to it when playing fast rhythms, but lacks some of the warmth of the Simul. The Simul's warmth is better for leads, but lacks the tightness of the Coliseum. It's a very noticeable difference. I honestly can't decide on which I like more. I'm trying to see if I can get the Simul to tighten up, but can't seem to get it there. Mind you, this is even with the 105 transformer. The Coliseum transformer is massive compared to the 105, which is what makes me believe that's where the difference lies.

After all this though, I can't help but feel as though Hetfield's long head Crunch Berries is most likely a Coliseum as well...? It is just so tight, and it sounds tight like the albums. What are your thoughts? Has anyone ever seen the back of CrunchBerries? It could very well be a Simul Coliseum.
'92 Dual Recto Rev. D, Volume mod
'84 Mark IIC+ Coliseum
'85 Mark IIC++ DRG, V1 mod
Mesa Standard 4x12
1980's EV Thiele
Sold:
'92 Dual Recto Rev. C
'92 Dual Recto Rev. E
'05 Dual Recto 3ch
'84 Mark IIC+ DR
http://www.TheBoogieArchives.com

IronSean
Mark III
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re:

Post by IronSean » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:17 pm

Elpelotero wrote:After all this though, I can't help but feel as though Hetfield's long head Crunch Berries is most likely a Coliseum as well...? It is just so tight, and it sounds tight like the albums. What are your thoughts? Has anyone ever seen the back of CrunchBerries? It could very well be a Simul Coliseum.
I would say you're half right: His head probably isn't a coliseum, but he ran it into other power amps, and most notably they used the Mesa Strategy 400 power amps during the Justice and Black Album days which is probably a lot closet to the Coliseum power section than a normal SimulClass.
Mark V
Studio Preamp
formerly: Quad Preamp, Rocket 44 112

IronSean
Mark III
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by IronSean » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:19 pm

Somewhat related, and I don't think it's come up yet, has anyone looked inside a C++ to see what actually gets changed? What the schematic differences are? What might need to be done to do the mod yourself?
Mark V
Studio Preamp
formerly: Quad Preamp, Rocket 44 112

User avatar
Markedman
Donating Member
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, CT

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by Markedman » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:26 pm

JP2C, Mark llC++ DG, Mark IV-A/B.

psychodave
Mark IV
Posts: 616
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:45 am

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by psychodave » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:44 pm

kippiejr wrote:To me i think your missing the point of the gain. Its not the amount of gain that you experience in the + to ++ but its structure of it. Heck my V mini has more gain in mark IV mod than my ++, But the + and ++ have that mellow sag to the gain that is "one of a kind." +'s have it, ++'s have a bit more.
Maybe your amps were different, but the two 2C++ heads I own have a ton of gain. More than my stock Mark III (not my Coli Mark III++) and more than the Mark V:25 and JP2C. The ++ mod also tightened up the amp a lot as well. I much prefer the ++ mod of a stock 2C+.

User avatar
Markedman
Donating Member
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, CT

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by Markedman » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:39 pm

Any way I look at it, neither amp leaves me craving for more gain! My C++ and JP2C are fairly equal in gain and feel. My particular Mark llC++ is remarkably similar in sound to my JP2C. Way, way, way more closer in sound and feel than any Mark III is, which, IMO is the closest tone to a C+. I would say Mark 3's have more gain than Mark ll's or the JP2C, but it's close, it depends on which tubes you use. If you turn the gain all the way up and it's not enough, your tubes are shot!
JP2C, Mark llC++ DG, Mark IV-A/B.

chipaudette
Donating Member
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:49 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by chipaudette » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:01 pm

I'm curious...what do you all mean when you say "gain"? It means different things to different people. Some guitarists think of it as the amount of compression/sustain. Other guitarists think of it as how quickly you can get feedback. Yet other guitarists think of it as the amount of distortion / fuzz. These are all different things.

If you define what you mean by "gain" it might clear up whether we're talking apples-to-apples or apples-to-oranges.

Chip

User avatar
Markedman
Donating Member
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:56 pm
Location: Norfolk, CT

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by Markedman » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:46 pm

For me, gain is distortion. Useable or not. Steve Vai, Joe Satriani are examples of known players who use a lot of gain in their tone whereas Hendrix used a lot of over-drive and volume that can only be achieved at a loud enough volume to get the speakers interacting with the guitar.
JP2C, Mark llC++ DG, Mark IV-A/B.

discostu29
Bottle Rocket
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: Mark IIC++ Hetfield mod

Post by discostu29 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:08 am

I have a confirmed by Mesa Boogie just the other week a factory built Mark IIC+ with a ++ mod done by Mike B in 2016. It has a switchable ++ mode, done by either pulling the mid pot or using a footswitch connected to the Slave Jack on the back. I have taking a few photos of the internals so you can see the relay fitted for this purpose. I have many more photos of the internals if anyone wants to see them. Sorry for all the links I don't know how to attach photos any other way. When I spoke to Mesa they confirmed that there is so much misinformation on this specific website about these amps and mods, maybe Mike B is just getting forgetful. I was also told there is nothing written down, no schematic no paper work on this mod at Mesa so when Mike goes (retires) so does the ++ mod.



https://drive.google.com/open?id=1j1m4h ... ZOaBsGVpx3

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1K ... I6_YZCh

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17OP ... l89GWo

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-OP ... Nwftozq

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-Wxd ... yIRgJj

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Bejo ... zRGk74D8

Post Reply