New Mark III user - need help please!

Hey guys. I recently purchased a Mark III no stripe (GEQ, reverb, non-simulclass) and I have some questions about it. Firstly, regarding tubes.

1. Can I switch the pre-amp tubes around? Putting V1 in other places, etc.
2. If I wanted to replace the tubes, where would I get them from? I'm in the UK so worldwide shipping would be needed.
3. The Mark III has 5 pre-amp tubes, yeah? Do I just need any 5 tubes - or do I need certain ones for certain places? I was thinking of just buying 5 of the same decent quality pre-amp tubes, and some new 6L6s while I'm at it - but I'd like to try changing the pre-amps first. I know nothing about tubes so literally any information in this area would be a huge help.

Now onto tones. I can't see to get a good lead/solo tone. No matter what settings I use, playing solos sounds very aggressive and as if there's too much gain. But when I turn down the gain, the tone becomes really weak (as you'd expect) and doesn't sound very good at all. I've looked up lots of settings, and I'm using the standard ones pretty much:

http://www.chain-metal.nl/mark3/?bg=3&d1=65&d2=70&p2=1&d3=5&d4=30&d5=20&d6=65&p6=1&d7=40&p=15&g1=40&g2=55&g3=10&g4=40&g5=55&t=

Something similar to that, I mess with it a lot. It sounds great for rhythm - really thick with lots of bite. I'd like something more smooth for lead, but I just can't get it.

If anyone can post their settings for what they use for lead that would be awesome. And a bit thanks in advance to anyone who can answer my tubes questions.

Cheers

Scottyyy said:

Hey guys. I recently purchased a Mark III no stripe (GEQ, reverb, non-simulclass) and I have some questions about it. Firstly, regarding tubes.

1. Can I switch the pre-amp tubes around? Putting V1 in other places, etc.

Click to expand...

Yes.

Scottyyy said:

2. If I wanted to replace the tubes, where would I get them from? I'm in the UK so worldwide shipping would be needed.

Click to expand...

Musical instrument stores carries them.

Scottyyy said:

3. The Mark III has 5 pre-amp tubes, yeah? Do I just need any 5 tubes - or do I need certain ones for certain places? I was thinking of just buying 5 of the same decent quality pre-amp tubes, and some new 6L6s while I'm ait - but I'd like to try changing the pre-amps first. I know nothing about tubes so literally any information in this area would be a huge help.

Click to expand...

You can use any brand of 12ax7's and there is many brands, and they are also different sounding. But it all comes down to taste, and only you can tell you what you like, so trial and error is the way to go here.
Mesa 12ax7 is a great starting point.

Scottyyy said:

Now onto tones. I can't see to get a good lead/solo tone. No matter what settings I use, playing solos sounds very aggressive and as if there's too much gain. But when I turn down the gain, the tone because really weak (as you'd expect) and doesn't sound very good at all. I've looked up lots of settings, and I'm using the standard ones pretty much:

http://www.chain-metal.nl/mark3/?bg=3&d1=65&d2=70&p2=1&d3=5&d4=30&d5=20&d6=65&p6=1&d7=40&p=15&g1=40&g2=55&g3=10&g4=40&g5=55&t=

Something similar to that, I mess with it a lot. It sounds great for rhythm - really thick with lots of bite. I'd like something more smooth for lead, but I just can't get it.

If anyone can post their settings for what they use for lead that would be awesome. And a bit thanks in advance to anyone who can answer my tubes questions.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Do you mean rhythm as clean and lead as distortion?

tony777 said:

Scottyyy said:

Hey guys. I recently purchased a Mark III no stripe (GEQ, reverb, non-simulclass) and I have some questions about it. Firstly, regarding tubes.

1. Can I switch the pre-amp tubes around? Putting V1 in other places, etc.

Click to expand...

Yes.

Scottyyy said:

2. If I wanted to replace the tubes, where would I get them from? I'm in the UK so worldwide shipping would be needed.

Click to expand...

Musical instrument stores carries them.

Scottyyy said:

3. The Mark III has 5 pre-amp tubes, yeah? Do I just need any 5 tubes - or do I need certain ones for certain places? I was thinking of just buying 5 of the same decent quality pre-amp tubes, and some new 6L6s while I'm ait - but I'd like to try changing the pre-amps first. I know nothing about tubes so literally any information in this area would be a huge help.

Click to expand...

You can use any brand of 12ax7's and there is many brands, and they are also different sounding. But it all comes down to taste, and only you can tell you what you like, so trial and error is the way to go here.
Mesa 12ax7 is a great starting point.

Scottyyy said:

Now onto tones. I can't see to get a good lead/solo tone. No matter what settings I use, playing solos sounds very aggressive and as if there's too much gain. But when I turn down the gain, the tone because really weak (as you'd expect) and doesn't sound very good at all. I've looked up lots of settings, and I'm using the standard ones pretty much:

http://www.chain-metal.nl/mark3/?bg=3&d1=65&d2=70&p2=1&d3=5&d4=30&d5=20&d6=65&p6=1&d7=40&p=15&g1=40&g2=55&g3=10&g4=40&g5=55&t=

Something similar to that, I mess with it a lot. It sounds great for rhythm - really thick with lots of bite. I'd like something more smooth for lead, but I just can't get it.

If anyone can post their settings for what they use for lead that would be awesome. And a bit thanks in advance to anyone who can answer my tubes questions.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Do you mean rhythm as clean and lead as distortion?

Click to expand...

Thanks.

I was talking about the lead channel only there - I can't get a decent sound from the R2 channel at all and the clean channel is amazing, no complaints there. I'm fine with not using the R2 channel - I figured I'd just use the clean channel for, well, cleans and the lead channel for any distortion. I can get a pretty decent thick rhythm sound (with the lead channel), but I can't get a good solo sound - it's too aggressive. I've found rolling the volume knob down on my guitar reduces some of the harshness, but it's still not great. Also I can't get very many different distorted sounds in general. I mean, the tone changes obviously, but no matter what I try it's always this very thick, very gainy aggressive sound. I'd like something less "metal" but I can't seem to do it. I've read this amp is extremely versatile, so I guess it's just down to me not being able to get the settings right.

Congrats. The Mark III is a great and underrated amp.

I can offer a few tips:

V1 is going to be the most important preamp tube. It's the 1st tube in the chain and kind of sets the tone for the rest of the gain stages. Any imperfections with V1 will be amplified by the other gain stages, so you usually put your "best" preamp tube in that position.

Some preamp tubes sound darker, brighter, and/or have more or less gain than others. Feel free to swap them around. You can even try using lesser gain tubes such as 12AT7's to help reduce the distortion.

If you find your distortion too fizzy, turn the Presence knob down - I keep mine around 1-2 max.

Like most of the older Mark amps, the gain you select for the clean channel will affect the lead channels gain. You'll have to find a balance you like. You should also seriously consider performing the R2 mod, which adds a separate volume control for R2. This will help you balance-out all 3 channels - it's an easy mod and there are very detailed instruction w/photos on this site.

Enjoy your amp!

Tuna141 said:

Congrats. The Mark III is a great and underrated amp.

I can offer a few tips:

You should also seriously consider performing the R2 mod, which adds a separate volume control for R2. This will help you balance-out all 3 channels - it's an easy mod and there are very detailed instruction w/photos on this site.

Enjoy your amp!

Click to expand...

+1 absolutely essential to use this amp to its fullest

It's fully explained here to the point you could easily do it yourself:

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18520

I wish you success.

Thanks guys.

I just took all the pre-amp tubes out except for the one on the far left which I couldn't get to - this is the V5 right?

I found a JJ tube in V1 under the metal casing, and Sovtek tubes in V2-4. I switched V2 and V1 around, i'll see if that makes a difference. In general, which are considered better - Sovtek or JJ 12ax7 tubes?

Regarding the R2 mod - I may consider it in the future (i don't mind doing my own mods) but for now I want to get a lead channel sound that I'm happy with, then I may start to use R2 channel.

Oh by the way, the pre-amp tubes are laid out this. It doesn't say which is which ("12ax7" and another scribble I can't make out is written in marker next to the tubes), so have I got this right?

5 4 2 1
.....3

I guessed 2 and 3, as they're in the same place but one of them is moved forward closer to the power tubes. Is that right?

Either go to Westside, the UK distributors, for Mesa valves or Watford Valves if you want to try something else (Derek Rocco will advise you).

+1 on the presence control If your lead sound if too aggressive - I never get above 3, usually less. The manuals recommended 7 is way too high unless you have the master well up. Cutting the presence also improves string balance on the clean channel.

BTW sounds as though you have most likely got the EV fitted. A Celestion may get closer to what you are after although I prefer the EV now I have got used to it.

yelly said:

Either go to Westside, the UK distributors, for Mesa valves or Watford Valves if you want to try something else (Derek Rocco will advise you).

+1 on the presence control If your lead sound if too aggressive - I never get above 3, usually less. The manuals recommended 7 is way too high unless you have the master well up. Cutting the presence also improves string balance on the clean channel.

BTW sounds as though you have most likely got the EV fitted. A Celestion may get closer to what you are after although I prefer the EV now I have got used to it.

Click to expand...

I'm using a custom cab with 2 Celestion V30s actually.

Thanks for the info also.

Scottyyy said:

Thanks guys.

I just took all the pre-amp tubes out except for the one on the far left which I couldn't get to - this is the V5 right?

I found a JJ tube in V1 under the metal casing, and Sovtek tubes in V2-4. I switched V2 and V1 around, i'll see if that makes a difference. In general, which are considered better - Sovtek or JJ 12ax7 tubes?

Regarding the R2 mod - I may consider it in the future (i don't mind doing my own mods) but for now I want to get a lead channel sound that I'm happy with, then I may start to use R2 channel.

Oh by the way, the pre-amp tubes are laid out this. It doesn't say which is which ("12ax7" and another scribble I can't make out is written in marker next to the tubes), so have I got this right?

5 4 2 1
.....3

I guessed 2 and 3, as they're in the same place but one of them is moved forward closer to the power tubes. Is that right?

Click to expand...

The 12AX7 nearest to the input jack is V1. Next is V2, V3, etc.
Like this (not how you have it):

4 3 2 1
.....5
First, your guitar signal goes through the tone controls. Next, V1 is the first tube to "see' the guitar signal, and, as previously mentioned, has the most effect on the tone. V2 amplifies the signal a bit more. V3 is the tube for the LEAD circuitry, so you can substitute different 12AX7s (and others) with this one to get different LEAD sounds. V4 is the reverb tube. The tube not in line with the others but closer to the power tubes is V5, the phase inverter or driver. V5 takes the signal from the pre-amp and sends it to the power section.
There is no "right" or "wrong" or "best" sounding tube, only ones that sound good to YOU.
Here's a web page explaining how different pre-amp tubes have different sounds:
http://thetubestore.com/gainfactor.html
Hope this helps

P.S. For a smoother lead tone, try starting with the sliders on the Graphic EQ all the way down. Then begin moving them up to get the sound you like. Smoothness is often a result of subtracting key frequencies, not adding them. Too much high end, high mids, and presence will be un-smoov. Also, try one of the lower-gain tubes in V3 (See above for tube substitution).

MrMarkIII said:

Scottyyy said:

Thanks guys.

I just took all the pre-amp tubes out except for the one on the far left which I couldn't get to - this is the V5 right?

I found a JJ tube in V1 under the metal casing, and Sovtek tubes in V2-4. I switched V2 and V1 around, i'll see if that makes a difference. In general, which are considered better - Sovtek or JJ 12ax7 tubes?

Regarding the R2 mod - I may consider it in the future (i don't mind doing my own mods) but for now I want to get a lead channel sound that I'm happy with, then I may start to use R2 channel.

Oh by the way, the pre-amp tubes are laid out this. It doesn't say which is which ("12ax7" and another scribble I can't make out is written in marker next to the tubes), so have I got this right?

5 4 2 1
.....3

I guessed 2 and 3, as they're in the same place but one of them is moved forward closer to the power tubes. Is that right?

Click to expand...

The 12AX7 nearest to the input jack is V1. Next is V2, V3, etc.
Like this (not how you have it):

4 3 2 1
.....5
First, your guitar signal goes through the tone controls. Next, V1 is the first tube to "see' the guitar signal, and, as previously mentioned, has the most effect on the tone. V2 amplifies the signal a bit more. V3 is the tube for the LEAD circuitry, so you can substitute different 12AX7s (and others) with this one to get different LEAD sounds. V4 is the reverb tube. The tube not in line with the others but closer to the power tubes is V5, the phase inverter or driver. V5 takes the signal from the pre-amp and sends it to the power section.
There is no "right" or "wrong" or "best" sounding tube, only ones that sound good to YOU.
Here's a web page explaining how different pre-amp tubes have different sounds:
http://thetubestore.com/gainfactor.html
Hope this helps

P.S. For a smoother lead tone, try starting with the sliders on the Graphic EQ all the way down. Then begin moving them up to get the sound you like. Smoothness is often a result of subtracting key frequencies, not adding them. Too much high end, high mids, and presence will be un-smoov. Also, try one of the lower-gain tubes in V3 (See above for tube substitution).

Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks a lot for clearing that up.

I'll have a look at that site and pick out a new V1 and V3 then.

Woohoo! Finally getting somewhere.

Harshness is almost totally gone, I'm starting to get that super smooth sound I'm hearing in the clips from this amp. Looks like presence and my balancing of volume 1/lead drive were the culprits, also turning up the reverb helped a lot. I've actually turned off the GEQ - I'm going to try and get the best sound I can without it, and then turn it on to fine tune. It's hard though, that GEQ is amazing, even with all the sliders flat it somehow makes the amp sound better.

Sorry for the double post.