F-Series Discontinued & Tube Stories

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FIREBALL

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Does anyone know why the F-Series was discontinued? Please advise if you know anything. There has been some chatter on the web that there were quality issues of some sort.

I have an F-50 (3 years now) and have been very happy with the amp. The clean channel is outstanding. It's my favorite channel. I've been disappointed with the overdrive in CH 2 & 3. They crank out but it just seems to be too fuzzy/undefined and not musical enough regardless of where I set the gain. My solution has been to use my MXR Distortion+ through channel 1.
Recently, I've found that I need to use different tubes (meaning not MESA tubes) to get good overdriven sounds from channel 2 & 3. I switched-out the mesa 6L6's and replaced them with GT 6L6GE (5 GT rating). This picked things up considerably but it was not the sound I was looking for. It was still kind of flat. I then replace the Mesa 12AX7's in V1 & V2 with New Sensor Mullard reissues and holy crap! What a difference! CH1 was still sparkly and clean (although I did need to dial the gain back from 1 o'clock to 10 o'clock to keep it from breaking up) and CH 2 & 3 are starting to sound like the amp I remembered hearing in the GC showroom. I've just ordered 2 more of the NS 12AX7 Mullards from the Tube Store for V3 & V4 and I also ordered a matched pair of the SED Winged "C" 6L6GC's for the power stage. I'm betting that the new tubage is going to make this F-50 scream. Mesa: Awesome amps, average tubes.
 
cool lets hear an update when you get those new pres in there
 
You could put back the mesa 12AX7 (or another better tube) in V1 to get back some headroom in ch1 since ch2 uses V2 only.
I had put TungSol in V1, V2 and V4 (a specially selected low noise for V1 and a balanced tube for V4) and later on an EH (also low noise) I had as spare in V2 and liked that even better.

The SED winged C 6L6 sound very good!

I'm curious about the Mullard, let us know!

Cheers
Fabien
 
O.K., guys. This is my initial take (I'm still fiddlin' with my gain, treble, mid, and bass settings to get the proper balance) so consider this a provisional review:
*Overall volume seems to have increased (if you can believe that on an F-50...like it needs to be louder. Holy crap, did I just say that? It can never be too loud!).
*There is a definite increase in high-end frequencies on all channels. That's why I've been playing with my EQ settings. The character of the amp has changed and is much brighter. Fabien, I like your suggestion about V1. Thanks! I think I'm going to replace the Mullard with one of my GT 12AX7C's. I like my clean channel a little warmer than what it is now with the Mullard and perhaps the GT will do the trick.
*The harmonic content of channels 2&3 is much greater. I like my gain set at about 9-10 o'clock for more of a 70's classic rock tone and the Mullard 12AX7 in V2 with the Winged C's have made this amp sing. Just playing stupid chords like G-D-C9 and letting them ring makes me smile ear to ear. I get the clarity and definition of the high notes with a whole lotta crunch and punch on the bottom end. Pinch harmonics are a blast...The amp just squeals! I generally play all of my ch. 2 stuff on my bridge pick-up but if I switch it over to the neck, suddenly I've got a great SRV vibe going on (O.K., I don't play like Stevie Ray but I got the sound!).
*Overall, I'm very pleased with the swaps. I still have some level adjustments to optimize but I like the direction things are moving. I'll be playing out in a couple of days and we'll see how it goes.
 
This is an interesting thread. When I first got my F-50, it sounded superb in all settings. At home. At low volume. Once I got it out to a gig though, I was amazed by the clean channel's clarity and focus, but was quite disappointed with the overdrive. It sounded anemic, and lacked any bottom end definition. There was nothing I could do with the tone settings to get it exactly right. After a couple of months, one of my power tubes went south, so I got replacements from Boogie. This improved things a little, but I still wasn't satisfied.

Last year I re-tubed with a Doug's Tube compliment of preamp and power amp tubes. The power tubes are the winged Cs, and that improved things a lot. But I still haven't been totally satisfied. I usually run this amp with a DC-3 in a stereo configuration, and when I do that, things open up a lot more, and the overall tone is significantly improved.

But this is interesting. Last weekend, I hooked this up to a 2x12 open back vertical cab. and was FLOORED by how good it sounded. All the fizziness was gone, there was a profound change in the amount of bottom end thump, and the overall tone in channel 2 (both with and without contour) was amazing. I then tried it through the single 12 in my DC-3 (which I think is a V 30) and that also seemed to improve things -- although nothing like the 2x12 did. Anyway, I've come to the conclusion, that for my tastes it's the speaker that isn't quite right for this amp.

Anyone else tried this?
 
When I bought a Carvin Legacy 2x12 cab I was also impressed by the difference between my Nomad 45 small 1x12 cab and a decent sized 2x12, the amp got mature. The Nomad sounds also much better through my F50 1x12 combo cab.

With my Nomad 45 and my Fender Blues Junior I experimented quite a lot with speakers: MC90, V30's Eminence Texas Heat and Red White & Blues and Celestion Classic Lead, G12H30 and G12-65.

V30's (2 came in the Carvin cab + 1 I bought) ended up sold, lead tone is good but clean is not my taste
G12H30 stays in the Blues Junior, great match, great rock speaker. Paired with a v30 in the Carvin cab with the nomad was OK but not really Boogie.
Texas Heat is nothing special, punchy but quite non-descript. Too dark for the BJ too.
RW&B is good, does not color the tone too much, very punchy but not exactly Boogie.
Classic Lead is very close (but not Identical, somewhat brighter) to the MC90 and therefore The Mesa's (Nomad & F50) still sound Boogie.
Surprisingly the Nomad sounded pretty good with the Fender (Eminence) OEM speaker. These are not the best choice for the BJ but seems to be good speakers anyway.

In a 'gear meeting' with my guitar teacher we both agreed that my F50 sounded best with the MC90 and his Ceriatone Overtone Special sounded best with his 2x12 cab with G12-65 (RW&B was quite close to these but not as good).

It goes without saying that taste is a major component, This post beeing exclusively mine (taste) and worth about €0.013. (that should make $0.02 at the current exchage rate) :D

Cheers
Fabien
 
plumptone said:
This is an interesting thread. When I first got my F-50, it sounded superb in all settings. At home. At low volume. Once I got it out to a gig though, I was amazed by the clean channel's clarity and focus, but was quite disappointed with the overdrive. It sounded anemic, and lacked any bottom end definition. There was nothing I could do with the tone settings to get it exactly right. After a couple of months, one of my power tubes went south, so I got replacements from Boogie. This improved things a little, but I still wasn't satisfied.

Last year I re-tubed with a Doug's Tube compliment of preamp and power amp tubes. The power tubes are the winged Cs, and that improved things a lot. But I still haven't been totally satisfied. I usually run this amp with a DC-3 in a stereo configuration, and when I do that, things open up a lot more, and the overall tone is significantly improved.

But this is interesting. Last weekend, I hooked this up to a 2x12 open back vertical cab. and was FLOORED by how good it sounded. All the fizziness was gone, there was a profound change in the amount of bottom end thump, and the overall tone in channel 2 (both with and without contour) was amazing. I then tried it through the single 12 in my DC-3 (which I think is a V 30) and that also seemed to improve things -- although nothing like the 2x12 did. Anyway, I've come to the conclusion, that for my tastes it's the speaker that isn't quite right for this amp.

Anyone else tried this?

I would agree that the stock Black Shadow speaker is a weak point in this amp.

I just got my F-50 combo last week. I was looking for a replacement for my JCM800 combo. The F-50 sounded good but didn't have the bottom end thump of my JCM800. I then unplugged F-50 speaker and connected the F-50 to the JCM800 speaker and WOW, what a difference.

I have a Celestion Classic Lead 80 in my JCM800 combo and it has way more bottom end thump than the Black Shadow speaker. Fatter, smoother tone without any ice pick highs. Made it a whole new amp.

I plan on dumping the Black Shadow and replacing it with a CL80 ASAP.
 
Hobo said:
I would agree that the stock Black Shadow speaker is a weak point in this amp.

I just got my F-50 combo last week. I was looking for a replacement for my JCM800 combo. The F-50 sounded good but didn't have the bottom end thump of my JCM800. I then unplugged F-50 speaker and connected the F-50 to the JCM800 speaker and WOW, what a difference.

I have a Celestion Classic Lead 80 in my JCM800 combo and it has way more bottom end thump than the Black Shadow speaker. Fatter, smoother tone without any ice pick highs. Made it a whole new amp.

I plan on dumping the Black Shadow and replacing it with a CL80 ASAP.

Don't forget to take the cabinet size and material in account. The F50 cab is already larger than the old 19" wide Boogie format so it breathes more but an even larger inside volume and/or different construction (solid pine instead of plywood, 1/2" thick instead of 3/4") can sound much bassier.
Is your MC90 well broken in? An MC90 has smoother highs than a CL80

Fabien
 
fabien said:
Hobo said:
I would agree that the stock Black Shadow speaker is a weak point in this amp.

I just got my F-50 combo last week. I was looking for a replacement for my JCM800 combo. The F-50 sounded good but didn't have the bottom end thump of my JCM800. I then unplugged F-50 speaker and connected the F-50 to the JCM800 speaker and WOW, what a difference.

I have a Celestion Classic Lead 80 in my JCM800 combo and it has way more bottom end thump than the Black Shadow speaker. Fatter, smoother tone without any ice pick highs. Made it a whole new amp.

I plan on dumping the Black Shadow and replacing it with a CL80 ASAP.

Don't forget to take the cabinet size and material in account. The F50 cab is already larger than the old 19" wide Boogie format so it breathes more but an even larger inside volume and/or different construction (solid pine instead of plywood, 1/2" thick instead of 3/4") can sound much bassier.
Is your MC90 well broken in? An MC90 has smoother highs than a CL80

Fabien

I've only had my F-50 a week and I can only turn it up when my wife is gone. She is gone today so I tried it out again and here is my updated assessment.
The Black Shadow is smoother but sounds "looser". Overall it's darker and actually sounds a little muffled compared to the CL80. The CL80 has more mids and is A LOT tighter. Sounds like a classic Marshall and sounds just like my JCM800.

Both speakers sound good so now it just comes down to personal preference. The CL80 gives more of a Marshall tone and that's what I'm looking for.

Just for kicks I played thru both speakers at the same time and it sounded monsterous!
 
Yes going from 1x12 to 2x12 gives a good kick. F50 needs indeed to be cranked a bit to loose that fizzy highs and at band/gig volume it's awesome.
 
Had the same problem with my F-30, loved the clean but the dirt ch. sounded like cow poo. I hooked it up to my friends 4X12 at a jam and I thought it was one cool amp. Un-plugged the 4X12 and it went back to sounding boxy and strangled. I did find that a G12H "Kinda" made made it less, but for a 50 watter it would be useless. Right now I use a 2x12 with a BB Pre Amp on the clean channel, and I am quite happy with my tone.
 
I've always noticed that i much prefer Boogie amps with a 2x12.Best combination i ever had was a Calibre 50+ combo into a 2x12 cabinet i loaded with two EV12ml speakers,it was outstanding!never heard a bottom end thud like it when muting the strings,it was fantastic!A really tight,stereo,expansive spread of sound.
 
Great tone Hobo, typical CL80, close to MC90 but more bite.

Nice gain, quite a lot for 9:00, is your contour on?

And no, your playing does not suck an your guitar is tuned, that's much more than many clips you an find on YouTube, even from Guitar Player's editors :mrgreen:

Cheers Fabien
 
Contour is off.
I never use the contour. Don't really care for it.
 
I like the contour, it adds a little something to the gain and overall sound. I use clean or contour only. though I will eventually find the plain 2 setting a value.
my f100 head is a bit loud for home use.. I do need a speaker attenuator as it seems a waste of an amp at even the 60 watt setting to have the volume on 1. you get over that and she's beginning to roar some.
I love the cleans this amp produces, very fender , yet not if that makes any sense. its nice having reverb on both channels.
 
In retrospect, the F-series was probably discontinued in order to give the market room for the Express amps (which are similarly voiced amps IMO, and definitely are part of the DC/F/Express family line), and to test the waters for new technology which ended up in the new flagship (Mark V).

This did several things.

By discontinuing the F Series, Mesa rid itself of one of the last amps they built without switchable modes per channel (IE the Dual Rec's Raw/Vintage/Modern). Mesa has always prided themselves on their amps' versatility and it's hard to deny the Express is more versatile than the F.

By releasing the Express series, Mesa re-entered the tiny amp market with the 5:25. There hasn't been a 10" mesa combo since the Subway amps. The 5w mode also allows for some competition with the low-wattage movement which has happened over the last several years.

Also, the Express amps have the Contour function a la the F amps, but the amount of equalization possible is user customizable (since it's on a knob instead of just a switch). This has proved very popular and it seems obvious now that the plan all along was to include this feature in the Mark V.

So the Express amps can do more for the sameish money and allowed mesa to test the popularity and usefulness of some new features.
 
Interesting thread!

I've got an F100 combo I run through another 2X12 Marshall 1936 cab, and just put in an order for an MXR 6 band EQ to try and get rid of the high end fizz and add a bit of thump. Never really even thought of the tubes, as Mesa was rather insistent I keep the mesa tubes in it.

Anyone else have any luck with different tubes?

Thanks!
 
ran_dizolph said:
Interesting thread!

I've got an F100 combo I run through another 2X12 Marshall 1936 cab, and just put in an order for an MXR 6 band EQ to try and get rid of the high end fizz and add a bit of thump. Never really even thought of the tubes, as Mesa was rather insistent I keep the mesa tubes in it.

Anyone else have any luck with different tubes?

Thanks!

TungSol preamp tubes with an EH in V2 and SED winged C in power sound good for me. Not a dramatic change but a bit warmer and livelier.

Cheers
Fabien
 
it seems everything that I really like whether it be a car, shampoo/sundry items or an amp or guitar bla-bla-blah goes the way of the dinosaur about the time i catch on to it.
the f100 though way more amp than anyone not playing stadiums would ever need is the first mesa product that I wasnt 'eeeh about.
I never cared for the mark combos, 30 years later I still think a marshall 2104 is its master....all the equalization crap is more than I care to deal with, switches , and pull knobs come on, less is more and the f series finally provided that and then some....when i first tried the amp out I was stunned at the uncluttered simple to navigate control panel and dual masters appealled to me having been a '70s master single channel guy//....... this is a far cry from the flight manual thick owners manual that one has always needed to fly the mesa road king etc. amps.
and with that said... come on, after 32 years or playing and being around and repairing guitars playing professionally touring and recording, I've never heard a single speaker combo worth its price tag. i cant see the mark4 being anything but another stripe color differential from its predecessors.
the road king I tried was rank at best and the stiletto was a pathetic marshall copy .

the f series really brought simplicity with a break from the typical mesa midrange voicing which I dont care much for. . I really wish I had bought the f100 halfstack in bronco orange that I fence sat on for nearly 15 months before deciding i had to have it, and it being sold a few months before I came back to snap er up.

I've tried the espress and though there are some feature similarities, the express to me is another of mesas "over thought" that doesnt live up to its prior namesake.

I'll readily admit I am not a mesa guy but the f series finally got me to spend my money on one. now its gone.

so I'll enjoy my minty f100 halfstack, plain jane black taurus and all, its a friggin showroom amp , for the $1200 that i spent
compared to the bronco orange/cane one that I was so set on was just shy of $3k., I think I did ok for an amp that was bought simply to scratch an itch per say :)

I'm definitely going to buy an f50 head to compare to my 100 as most guys posting on the net like the 50 better and if thats actually the case I think i may be a convert...
I'm very happy with my f series...
 
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