Stiletto Deuce II issue: tinny/shrill/thin sounds! help!

I've been trying to get to know my Stiletto really well. I found a great clean, but the 2nd channel (and crunch mode on the first) is giving me a really strange sound at the end of a decaying note or chord. Almost like there's a tin can just blowing around in there or something.

I don't know if it's my guitar or what, because I can hear string rattle and everything. Does my guitar need a tune up or my amp?

Try doing a tap test on the tubes. If a tube suffers a mechanical failure it can have a piece kind of loose/rattling around inside it. The vibrations caused by playing it can vibrate the loose piece around, causing all sorts of noises. Most of the time tapping all the tubes will cause the offending tube to give itself away... although sometimes it can be hard to diagnose if it's a very minor tube fault.

Are you talkin' preamp or power amp? This is just a pain in the ***. I just re-tubed the mother less than 2 weeks ago.

wannabweiland said:

Are you talkin' preamp or power amp? This is just a pain in the ***. I just re-tubed the mother less than 2 weeks ago.

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Tap both.

What kind of preamp tubes?

Just some Groove Tube 12ax7s, I believe. I tapped on 'em last night. I didn't hear anything strange or any extra noise.

wannabweiland said:

Just some Groove Tube 12ax7s, I believe. I tapped on 'em last night. I didn't hear anything strange or any extra noise.

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I'd suggest researching who produced them. I just learned the other day that New Sensor made changes to their production method which makes their preamp tubes (Sovtek, Tung-Sol, EHX, and a bunch of others) not jive with being in a cathode follower circuit (V3 and V4 in a Stiletto). It's why Mesa switched to using JJ and Chinese a couple of years back.

On a side note, I ran into this quote today;

"To add to my first comment, When I had my stiletto, it didnt like the V30s. It was too much. Too harsh in the upper mids. H30s were ok with it and T75s were goddly."

I don't know if you're still using those Jensens, but it made me think of you.

I think I'm going to snag a whole retube set from Eurotubes.com. They seem to know their stuff.

I've also been thinking a lot about my speakers. I think I'm going to see about getting some WGS Green Berets. I really dug those speakers when I had 'em in my 4x12 awhile back. Thanks a bunch for your help, man. I'm tryin' to hang onto this one until I've got the means for another Orange and if I can get it to sound the way I want it to, I might not even GAS for an Orange after all.

Maybe check out a ElectraDyne as well. Most dudes think it sounds Marshall-ish... I thought it sounded Orange-ish... and yet another dude said he thought it sounded like the offspring of a Marshall/Orange love fest. Plus it's actually cheaper than what new Oranges are going for these days. Only catch is that the gain stops at around JCM800 levels and I'm not totally sure how much dirt you're looking for.

screamingdaisy said:

I just learned the other day that New Sensor made changes to their production method which makes their preamp tubes (Sovtek, Tung-Sol, EHX, and a bunch of others) not jive with being in a cathode follower circuit (V3 and V4 in a Stiletto).

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"SOUND “DROP-OUTS” / INTERMITTENT SIGNAL

One Possible Cause

Most (but not all) Mesa/Boogie amplifiers have one or two “cathode follower” tube
stages in their preamps. Tube selection is CRITICAL in these stages.

Specifically, in a 12AX7 tube used as a “cathode follower”, the voltage difference
between that present at the cathode, as compared with the heater voltage, can be
withstood or tolerated by certain types of tubes, whereas other tubes will fail. The
failure of a “cathode follower“ tube will cause sound dropouts or signal loss.

For the past few years, Mesa has been using two types of 12AX7 tubes: ones
originating in Russia (Sovtek EH), and ones originating in China. The Russian (Sovtek)
tube is NOT reliable as a cathode follower. Of the tubes we are using today (March
2008), ONLY THE CHINESE 12AX7 IS RELIABLE AS A CATHODE FOLLOWER.

In conclusion, if you are troubleshooting for signal dropout in a Mesa/Boogie amp,
suspect a cathode follower tube, and try replacing it with a Mesa 12AX7 that is marked
as “CHINESE” (silk-screened on the tube itself).

Below is a partial list of Mesa amps and cathode follower tube locations:

GUITAR AMPS BASS AMPS

Lone Star & LS Special: V3
M-Pulse: V2
Stiletto: V3 & V4
Venture: V2
Road King I: V3 & V4
Big Block 750: V4
Road King II: V3 & V5
Titan: V4
Roadster: V3 & V5
M2000: V2
Dual & Triple (2ch or 3ch): V3 & V4
Bass 400+: V2
Tremoverb: V3 & V4

ANOTHER POSSIBLE SCENARIO may occur in the “SPONGY” (or on some models,
“TWEED”) power setting: the reduced filament voltage may cause very low output from
a RUSSIAN preamp tube. Again, the recommended fix is to replace the “sagging” tube
with the CHINESE type of Mesa 12AX7 - which are more immune to this type of failure."

to stephen sawall: Hmmm, nice info. Not having any volume drop issues, but this may very well be related.

screamingdaisy, I'll check out the Electradyne. I honestly am not familiar with it at all. As far as gain goes, JCM 800-style is fine with me. I'd probably just end up boosting it with maybe a Lovepedal Eternity or something.

It is just a copy paste from a other forum (Rig Talk) it was said to have come from Mesa. I copied it for myself because I knew it could come in handy.

When i have played Stiletto's the words thin and harsh always enter my mind. The Deuce i had sounded better once the volume was turned up.

danyeo1 said:

When i have played Stiletto's the words thin and harsh always enter my mind. The Deuce i had sounded better once the volume was turned up.

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I agree completely ..... the power section needs to be pushed to help control this.

Did it always do this ? Or did it start with the new tubes ?

Lower the master volume, and then compensate with the output knob. Might just be enough to make your tone less bright...

I think the problem always existed, which is why I thought it could be my guitar. But, the tubes I put in may not be the balance I prefer. I have a Hot Plate coming, which should help with the volume thing? Maybe?

You know what they say about polishing a turd...

I don't have a lot of experience with the Stilettos, but it seems like you're fighting an uphill battle and loosing.

Yeah, at this point I'll just try all I can and if the Hot Plate, new tubes, and 10-band EQ don't do the trick... I'll have to give up.

danyeo1 said:

When i have played Stiletto's the words thin and harsh always enter my mind. The Deuce i had sounded better once the volume was turned up.

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thats weird, mines never sounded like that. and mines a stg 1 trident. though I replaced some of the preamp tubes and the thing really opened up. I've never really had to crank the volume to make it sound better, though it does help because its a tube amp. but mine sounds great at low levels.
Though i did just buy an Orange 212 cab with V30's in it, so I would like to see what that does to my tone.

I think there are 2 things I need to do. Numero Uno: change my tubes. I have a feeling that my tubes are crap. Even the ones I just put in. I've had 'em for awhile and I think it's time I gave up on Groove Tubes. I did some reading through my owners manual and decided that I'm going to get some KT77s to replace my EL34s (which I believe won't need any biasing or mod-ing, should just be drop in replacements, right?) to beef up the bottom a bit. Then will probably throw in some Mullard pre amp tubes--get 'em all balanced, maybe even some gold pins or something.

Numero Dos: I think it's time for a speaker change. I honestly don't remember having this problem with my last Deuce II, so it very well could be my cabinet/speakers. I think once I do these couple things, I'll be in tonal heaven.