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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:39 am 
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Mark II

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:47 am
Posts: 91
Location: Washington
I have the Winged "C"/SED EL34's and Tung-sol 12ax7 in v1 & v2 and I love them. Both channels are a big improvement over the stock tubes. the fat clean kicks ass with these tubes

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:32 am
Posts: 5
How do I remove the shielding cyclinder around the 12ax7pre amps tubes.
Pull? Turn?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:49 pm 
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Donating Member

Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:03 am
Posts: 156
Location: Montana
Turn them counter clockwise then pull. You will feel them get loose before you pull.

I bought Silverwulf's Ace head (awesome guy to deal with by the way).
It has stock Mesa pre's and a set of winged C's. It sounded great this past weekend at a jam session ( through a recto 4x12, slant V30's). No cpmplaints at all. SO until I feel the need I'll stick with this setup.

Hey Silverwulf where did you get those winged C's?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:13 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 245
Location: Nantucket MA
Old BF Shred, Maybe you could share some light on the mesa boogie substitute el34's str450's or the SPAx7a's for use in ace head instead of their stock tubes (str447's / 12ax7's)???? could these substitute tubes help out with what some people consider excessive brightness and harshness in the high end of the ace heads?????????????????? 8) :mrgreen:

Old BF Shred wrote:
PS....please be aware, if you didn't know this, that other than Mesa power tubes "may" void your warranty. Although generally only if Mesa traces the problem(s) to the non Mesa power tubes (preamp tubes aren't the issue). The risk of this is your own.

They do OK the use of Groove Tubes rated 4, 5 or 6. My GT el34M's are rated 5 and work great.
You might want to stick with these unless you are certain what rating of other brands will work in the Ace. Only way to be sure is to have a tech check the idle current (controlled by bias).
Mesa told me the idle current spec is 38-40 ma. but not all suppliers use the same method of measurement. Mesa or Groove Tubes are a relatively "safe" choice.

Again, Good luck :D

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ACE HEAD
2x12 Rec CAB TC G Major 2
Maxon OD9 pro plus
VOX BIG BAD WAH
DMC Ground Control Pro
MORLEY HUM Eliminator
Ibanez Guitars JEM/RG/Classical
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:00 am 
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Mark IV
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 870
Location: So Cal
surferdeac wrote:
Old BF Shred, Maybe you could share some light on the mesa boogie substitute el34's str450's or the SPAx7a's for use in ace head instead of their stock tubes (str447's / 12ax7's)???? could these substitute tubes help out with what some people consider excessive brightness and harshness in the high end of the ace heads?????????????????? 8) :mrgreen:

Old BF Shred wrote:
PS....please be aware, if you didn't know this, that other than Mesa power tubes "may" void your warranty. Although generally only if Mesa traces the problem(s) to the non Mesa power tubes (preamp tubes aren't the issue). The risk of this is your own.

They do OK the use of Groove Tubes rated 4, 5 or 6. My GT el34M's are rated 5 and work great.
You might want to stick with these unless you are certain what rating of other brands will work in the Ace. Only way to be sure is to have a tech check the idle current (controlled by bias).
Mesa told me the idle current spec is 38-40 ma. but not all suppliers use the same method of measurement. Mesa or Groove Tubes are a relatively "safe" choice.

Again, Good luck :D


I can only tell you what worked for me, but I am not the only here one who has noticed the standard JJ ecc83 (12ax7) does seem to taper off some high end. This does seem to help tame the brightness of the Ace. Since all modes use both halves of tube v2, if I recall, as opposed to some modes only using 1 side of v1, I found the JJ in v2 makes a significant difference. In both v1 AND v2, it seemed too much, but some may prefer it.

I had no reliability issues with those particular JJ's either.

I am now using old used tubes from the '60's (Amperex, Telefunken, Sonotone, RCA).
These overall sound better than the new production tubes, IMO.

Still the Ace is a naturally bright amp and I keep my presence and treble controls lower than most folks would consider "normal": 9 oclock or less for presence; 10 oclock or less for treble.

As far as el34's the GT el34M has the most low end of the '34's I tried...including =C=. The extra low end helps off-set the brightness.

The =C= have better detail, but low end is not so great, IMO. Both tubes have their pro's and con's....I will say they are the best 2 el34's I've tried, which also include Mesa str447, NewSensor "Mullards" and JJ el34. These last 2 sounded OK, better than Mesa, but not as good as GT or =C=.

If you want more lows, you might try the GT's....They are really good. :D

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Triaxis/50-50
4x12 and 1x12 cabs
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"Old rockers never die; we just start to smell that way...or is it the amp?"

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 245
Location: Nantucket MA
Thank you very much for taking the time to share your tube experience knowledge with my self and everyone else here BF Shred. I appreciate it. Ya know i have a stiletto ace head on order along with a 2x12 horizontal rectifier cab. I have owned a Carvin Legacy combo amp for the last 7 years or so and had it serviced every year and a half or so and my amp tech and I from time to time would try out different El34's in the power section. the Last ones I had in there were GTE34LS AKA:6CA7's perfomance 5 MATCHED. I really seemed to enjoy these along with GT12AX7R (Ecc83/7025) GOLD SERIES pre amp tubes which seem to be pretty good (low microphonics) and quiet enough to my ears. I wrote mesa to see if they could at least fit out my head with their more expensive stock grade el34str450's over the 447's and there spAX7a's (sp?????--- special maybe they are just more strict with how much normal microphonic noise they make compared to the rest of the bunch). The reason I am looking to use their stocked tubes is because i don't want to null and void the great warranty Mesa is so known and respected for. But it just seems that a good majority of people here seem to be complaining about how lifeless these sock Mesa Tubes are (at least the ones that they initially come stock with when sending them out to their distributors. DO YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE think that the GT tubes that I just talked about would damage the internal circuitry of my soon to be new ACE Head???????????.

By the way a lot of people seem to put down the Stiletto Ace For being well to bright. Bright in my humble opinion isn't necessarily bad. Especially bright and Warm compared to bright and harsh which some people on this mesa Board seem to be complaining about with regards to Ace Heads. TO EACH HIS TONE :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I have also been thinking about another thing. I wonder how many people out there In Stiletto deuce II land actually use the 100 watt setting. I know i never do with my Carvin Legacy. I always use the 50 watt setting option because it is easier for me to get a "SATURATED" tone at a lower volume and plus i don't have a hot plate. Here is the thing, I think that my carvin amp sounds a little bit better (fuller sounding and even crisper), when cranked using all 100 watts of Power, but its just to ear deafening unless i have earplugs in :mrgreen:. I used my amp with my old band, but the majority of my playing is done in my home studio and was also done a lot in my old keybord player's families professional studio. my point is this, I heard and loved the Deuce (which i didn't think was too bright). Played it even saw Andy Timmons at a guitar clinic play it, but if I had one I wouldn't be using it the way it was designed to be used that is at a 100 watt setting based on the 100 watt rated transformer. I would be using it at 50 watt setting because the small gigs that i may use it at have pa systems anyway if i was concerned about headroom in the clean channel.

So has anybody out there actually done an experiment and tried playing an Ace head and a deuce head at similar settings through the same cab at the 50 watt setting on the deuce???

If not has anybody out there that has a deuce II head done a tone test using the 100 watt setting vs 50 watt setting??????

I guess i got a little scared when people were saying the ace head is to "harsh" sounding especially because i only tried and heard the Deuce up close and personal and not the ACE, and decided on ordering the Ace anyways. I have heard it just haven't played one. The People that i have talked to that own ACE heads however most of them like them and say it just takes to time to tweak you amps eq. Also having a rackmount eq plus tc electronic gmajor rackmount eq i am sure will give me some a lot of options especially if this amp is too excessively bright. Changing out my tubes will probably help as well. The 2x12 rectifier cab will probably give it a fuller sound compared to the stiletto 2x12 cab as well. PLEASE FORGIVE MY RANTING

COMMENTS???? SUGGESTIONS ANYONE??? I'M ALL EARS??

"A musicianer just has to learn for himself, just by playing and LISTENING...... There ain't no one can write down the feeling you have to have. Thats from inside yourself"

"When you play from your heart, all of a sudden there's no gravity. You don't feel the weight of the world,of bills, of anything. Thats why people love it. Your so called insurmountable problems disappear, and instead of problems you get possibilities" - Carlos Santana- 8) :twisted: :mrgreen:

_________________
ACE HEAD
2x12 Rec CAB TC G Major 2
Maxon OD9 pro plus
VOX BIG BAD WAH
DMC Ground Control Pro
MORLEY HUM Eliminator
Ibanez Guitars JEM/RG/Classical
Pro-Tools Recording Setup


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 245
Location: Nantucket MA
Good Point JAB
Fat clean w/ xotic bb preamp or even a tube driver of some sort can darken it up quite a bit :twisted: :twisted:

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ACE HEAD
2x12 Rec CAB TC G Major 2
Maxon OD9 pro plus
VOX BIG BAD WAH
DMC Ground Control Pro
MORLEY HUM Eliminator
Ibanez Guitars JEM/RG/Classical
Pro-Tools Recording Setup


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:36 pm 
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Mark IV
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 870
Location: So Cal
Quote:
DO YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE think that the GT tubes that I just talked about would damage the internal circuitry of my soon to be new ACE Head???????????.


I have talked to the people at Mesa and they say that GT is the only tube, besides theirs, that won't void the warranty. That is because GT's rating system is on a par with their own. The quality control at both companies is top-shelf and defects are very, very rare.

And also, BTW, the concern is over the output tubes, not preamp tubes, if you were wondering...

The only thing you need to know is that the rating for the Mesa tubes coincides with numbers 4, 5 or 6 in GT's ratings. I mentioned earlier I have used the GT el34M and these are rated at "5". They work great. I am skeptical of the GT el34"S" for only one reason: They "may" not have enough bass output for the Ace.
I say "may" as I admit I did not try them in the Ace, but I DO know the 34"M"'s have way more bass than the Mesa str447 or the =C=, for that matter. Also, a friend of mine had the Legacy and I always thought it was very bass heavy....sounded real good but bass had to be kept down to 9 o'clock or less. So any el34 will sound bassy in it, IMO. The 34M's may actually be too much for the Legacy.

You will likely end up experimenting with different brands, as I did, 'til you find what you like.
This is relatively cheap with preamp tubes; not so much with el34's.

Still, I keep the presence and treble on the low side with the Ace, even with a 4x12 cab. It's the nature of the beast. But if you do I think you will get a great tone from it. I, personally, don't get hung up on where the knobs end up as long as I can get the sound I like.

Good luck :)

_________________
Stiletto Ace head
Triaxis/50-50
4x12 and 1x12 cabs
Studio Cal 22+
Various Hamer, G&L, Jackson

"Old rockers never die; we just start to smell that way...or is it the amp?"

Image


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