Strange Low End Resonance on Modern Mode

Ok, lets see if I can lay all this out...

I have a new (1 year old) MW DR. I use it in my studio sporadically but something never seemed right about it. I have heard that the low end of the DR is flubby, but it still seemed weird.

So here is what I am dealing with.

At medium volume on the red channel using vintage mode the amp reacts like i would expect. Palm mutes will peak a reasonable amount over the steady state volume (ringing chords). This is what i expect when recording. I can almost always raise the volume to that sweet spot where the cab evens out....good to go.

Now here is where it gets strange...

So on the red channel on vintage, as stated above....if i palm mute the low E string, moving up each fret past the A its pretty even. By even i mean the dynamic swing is consistent whether I am playing an E or a B.

OK...if i switch to modern and then do the same thing on the guitar when i get to the A or Bflat, BAMMMm this thing is swinging 10db with crazy resonance that sounds like my cab is gonna come apart. Its like a crazy buzzy fart.

This is what i have tried to resolve the issue...
- Change cab. - very similar reaction with my marshall 4x12 and mesa 4x12....mesa is worse due to its low end girth. Both cabs are on casters.
- Turn bass down on amp. - Turn it down all the way and it still has the crazy bump.
- Match apparent gain/saturation between vintage and modern - Gain hasnt much effect on the issue.
- Try modern on orange channel. - Same result
- Try different position in room. No substantial change
- Put an OD in front. Helps a little, but still garbage sound in that freq range.
- Swap around preamp tubes. - No change

I feel like this cannot be normal. I have been working with a tech locally via email and he hasnt been super helpful. I will continue that route for a few more days, but at some point i think i need to compare it to another similar amp to see if its my amp or a DR issue.

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much!

jason

I had this problem both at home with various amp sims and in the practice room. In my opinion, it is mostly a room resonance thing.

Coupled with the overbearing bass of the Recto, there are a few notes that tend to resonate much more, I think in my case it was also something around the A to B, especially on the thicker E-string.

What helps: change the room (not likely). Tubescreamer in front. Less gain. Less bass. Try a different amp. Try an amp sim or loadbox with headphones and it should be better. Use a multiband-compressor for recording.

I don't think there is something wrong with your amp, it is part of the game...

It very well may be an the amp and if so, it makes the modern setting unusable. No matter what room I put the cab in or even if i completely remove all the bass via EQ, or put an OD in front, the resonance is still there. Its not on the vintage setting, only the modern.

I have continued to research and feel its an issue in the power stage.

- From what i am reading the modern switch effects the power stage.
- Take the signal from the preamp bypassing the power stage shows no resonance issue.

I have swapped out the power tubes with no luck.

I have contacted another local mesa tech to see if i can get anywhere.

Thanks,
jason

Mesa support is kinda blowing me off saying its normal. So i prepared this video. Is this normal?

https://youtu.be/qZjgUg1u1eY

radiooctave said:

Mesa support is kinda blowing me off saying its normal. So i prepared this video. Is this normal?

https://youtu.be/qZjgUg1u1eY

Click to expand...

It sounded like normal recto to me. :shock: with 6L6 in power amp the modern will have these tails in lower notes....

If you try partially palm muting some power chords, the cab will make this oomphh -sound in low notes.

Are you using tube rectifier and/or spongy?

Tube Rec and Bold.

Its not the oomph that concerns me. Its the inconsistency. The E through the G are one tone and response and then anything above that is a completely different. This is what makes me think its a problem.

Thanks

I have two questions regarding your issue as I have had quite the same thing happen but with a Mark IVb wide body combo used with a 1999 oversized slant front 412. This was prior to getting the Multi-watt Dual Rectifier or the Roadster. I also have a 2014 standard slant front 412 and a new 2019 standard slant front 412 cab. I would say the performance of the 2014 vs the 2019 is about the same, however the 1999-2000 built 412 was far different in character but did exhibit the issue you described.

Fist question: For the Mesa cab, what size it is, oversized (standard) or traditional?
The second question: what year was the cab made?

Shortly after buying a Mark IVb combo, I wanted a 412 cabinet as I never had one before. This was late 1999 to early 2000. I brought home a new Oversized 412 cabinet so I can use it with the Mark IV combo or the Mark III combo that I had. The Mark III just seemed a bit too dark for the 412 cab, could have been the tubes in use. The Mark IV sounded good but when palm muting the sound was terrible, flub and honky or horn like resonance that would only occur on the low E string playing a single A note. It was more of an issue with the E string than it was with the open A string. Needless to say I did not get this performance using the combo speaker, only the 412 cabinet. I did not use the 412 cabinet all that much and following an injury I gave up playing all together in 2004. I did return to playing again in 2012 only to discover the 412 cabinet that I held onto still had that terrible issue. Almost as it if was cabinet resonance associated with the speaker frame that would result in the horn like sounds that were difficult to stop once started due to feedback from the guitar. I also picked up a Mark V head so I could use it with the 412 cab. The end result was more terrible sound but not with the same resonance issue. Flub was an issue as well as over brightness. Since I kept the cab all of those years even though it seemed useless, I swapped out the V30's in favor of EVM12L Black Label speakers. (Had I realized at the time, I could have gone with classics vs the black labels as there is only a very weak difference between the two such that they could be the same speaker just with different paint and labels on the frame and magnet/coil cooling slug. The end result was no more flub and that horn like sound I was getting with the Mark IV could not be repeated. I later bought another standard 412 cabinet in mid 2014 as I wanted a matching grill cloth on the cab to RA100 head. Color of the grill covering had no effect on its tone. With the new cab, the Mark IV never sounded better (no flub or resonance) and also had great success with it paired up to the Royal Atlantic. At the time I only had the same guitar I used since 2000. Reason for the 2nd 412 was that EV's did not sound all that great with the Royal Atlantic. I still have both 412 cabs to this date. Recently bought a Multi-Watt Dual Rectifier only to discover that amp was best with the newer standard 412 cab, almost a perfect match. I did get a third 412 standard sized cab for the MWDR. Still breaking it in. I also have a Roadster head. I feel it is much better with the EV speaker in the old oversized 412 cab. It was just ok with the newer 412 cabs. The darker tone of the Roadster on modern seems to fair well with the EVM12L. Multi-watt was ok with the EV loaded cab but a better match to the stock standard V30 loaded 412. While I was in CA a few weeks after I got the new 412 cab for the MWDR, I visited the Mesa Hollywood store and saw they had the traditional 412 and standard 412 next to each other along with the MWDR's and other amps. I asked if they could set up the MWDR with the traditional 412 so I can try it out, I almost bought the traditional sized 412 before the trip but never heard that cab before. Actually I am pleased I did not choose it as I felt it sounded muddy with the MWDR which reminded me of my experience with my first 412 (oversized) cab with the Mark IV. I did not get the horn like resonant horn like sound with the traditional cab as I did with the oversized 1999 412. I did not take off the back of the standard 412 to compare to the oversized 412 so if there are any internal changes (assuming they would be noticed) between the 1999 and 2014 cabinets. I did however remove one of the side handles to peek inside to confirm they were V30's and not something else, yep, they were V30's. When it comes to the cabinet construction, not all cabinets will have the same performance even if they are identical.

radiooctave said:

Mesa support is kinda blowing me off saying its normal. So i prepared this video. Is this normal?

https://youtu.be/qZjgUg1u1eY

Click to expand...

Sorry, I did not see this video until after posting. It sounds perfectly normal to me and is typical of an amp without reverb to sound that way. Modern pulls the negative feed back from the output transformer to the phase inverter as well as the circuit that inserts part of this signal in to the tone stack section. The characteristics are different to some extent. You may not notice in vintage or raw as much but it is probably there too. I guess my issue was far different than yours with my old 412 cab.