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 Post subject: Triple Rectifier Gain
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:09 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Posts: 16
So I bought a pre 2010 Triple Rectifier the one with 3 channels and no multiwatt. So I replaced all preamp tubes with new Russian made 12ax7 because the gain was weak unless above 1 o clock. It helped but it still seems lacking. Is it because I play at lower volume if so would a attenuator help or no? Also I do use a ISP decimator set to just enough to get rid of hiss and a Tube Screamer with gain at 9 o'clock, level max, and tone at noon. Its like without the tube screamer the gain seems weak idk how to describe it. On modern channel 3 if gain is at half it's almost clean. My guitar has 81 85 emg pick ups too. Any help or ideas would be great thanks. I'm new here and new to Mesa amps. I had a Mark V 25 watt I returned because I had the chance to get triple rectifier cheap and almost regret not keeping it. The Mark seemed to have easier gain control and tone shaping. One last thing was considering ordering a Mesa 5 band EQ. Good idea or bad for my Triple Rectifier?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Mark II
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:23 am
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CH2/3 Modern with Gain at noon isn't "clean" but isn't overly saturated either. For me, the sweet spot is around 1:30ish. My typical setup is an EMG81-7 into a Boss SD-1 (level and tone at noon, gain at minimum). For me that's plenty of saturation but notes still retain decent clarity. Pickup height with EMG's makes quite a difference... I set mine up to be about 1mm clearance while fretted at last fret. Too low and they sound weak and thin.

An attenuater won't do you any good with a Recto, much less a Triple. These aren't old school Marshalls. Their overdrive is entirely preamp based. The power section is there to just make the signal huge and loud with a ton of headroom.

As far as the gain seeming weak w/o a boost pedal, thats sort of the nature of Rectifiers. They're very bassy. Too much bass makes the feel still, slow, resistive - which is why tubescreamers are so popular with them (for high gain metal, at least). Mark series amps offer far more flexibility with having 2 EQ sections, and the topology is quite different. Marks are more compressed and more fluid, and subjectively easier to play. So, using an EQ pedal before the amp and rolling of low/low-mids would be where I'd suggest you start. The Mesa 5 band would be overkill in this application, but it could definitely work.

If you're tech savvy, take a look at the Gain pot values. Stock value should be 250k. I've read someone who had 100k's installed and they had to dime the gain to get anything close to metal. That would certainly account for the lack of gain, if it were the case. Just something to rule out.

EDIT: It has to be said that a Triple Recto is absolutely made to be cranked to gig volumes. It's an entirely different amp once you get the tubes workin'... If you play only at low volumes, sell it for something low power. IMO of course.

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Guitars:
Ibanez '98 RG7620 (EMG 81-7H, 60-7H)
Amps:
Triple Recto 3CH (modded), Studio Preamp (MK2C+ mods), 2x12 Recto Vertical cab
Past:
Mark V head, Rectoverb series 2 combo, F-30 combo, V-Twin rack pre


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
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If I put gain below 12 o clock on channel 2 or 3 it's like I lose signal to point it's dead unless I crank volume. Could I have bad power tubes??? Replaced all pre amp tubes. Thanks for any info appreciate it.

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Roland JC120


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Mark IV

Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 656
Location: Tucson, AZ
Hypieran wrote:
If I put gain below 12 o clock on channel 2 or 3 it's like I lose signal to point it's dead unless I crank volume. Could I have bad power tubes??? Replaced all pre amp tubes. Thanks for any info appreciate it.


I would check V2 and V3 if the problem is only on Channel 2 or 3. You might have a dud in there, even if new. Try swapping a good tube in to see if it changes. If Channel 1 is the same, check V1 as well. I have nice 70s to 80s distortion below Noon on the gain and you should too.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Posts: 16
I put all new in and it's still similar. I mean It sounds great anywhere between 1 o'clock and max. I find about 2 o'clock with tubescreamer on as clean boost is nice. This is my 1st tube amp so maybe I'm not used to how they are.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:13 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:28 am
Posts: 198
Location: Germany
Hypieran wrote:
Its like without the tube screamer the gain seems weak idk how to describe it. On modern channel 3 if gain is at half it's almost clean


This is definitely not normal. Rectifiers aren't the most saturated amps ever, but gain halfway up should give you plenty of distortion.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Posts: 16
I replaced all tubes with brand new Mesa tubes
6l6 matched sets. And 12ax7a Mesa. Lastly 5U4GB rectifier tubes. Gain at anything less than 1 o'clock seems low. Videos I've seen of ppl using it on noon or less my amp doesn't do it. Any suggestions?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:51 am 
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Mark III
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:00 am
Posts: 385
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I don't have a triple but did have a Rectoverb II and now own a Roadster head w/2 2x12's, so give or take, close enough to your triple.

Distortion should be plenty by 11 o'clock. Not saturated but should really have a decent growl to it. So, let's assume your amp is OK in terms of tubes / electronics and start looking elsewhere:

1. Guitar: Are pickups OK? (output OK? Volume pot OK? Pickup switch OK? Battery is fresh? Other?) Try another guitar if you can.

2. Guitar cable OK? (Old? Connectors OK? No frayed wiring at connectors?) Try another cable.

4. Speaker cab: You don't specify. Blown speaker? Cab connected with SPEAKER cable and NOT INSTRUMENT cable? Connected to amp in correct Ohm input? Connect to amp another cab if possible.

3. Any effects plugged in amp? if yes, unplug / disconnect. Setup: guitar > amp > cab and connect nothing else.

4. Amp Effects Loop setting: At recommended setting (without effects)?

5. Pots on amp clean? Spray with contact cleaner and work pots.

6. All jacks on amp clean? Spray with contact cleaner and work plug in / out of each jack several times. Effects loop jacks are sometimes culprits and affect signal path; but this would affect the preamp's output signal to the power amp, not so much the preamp gain... so for preamp gain, clean the guitar Input jack properly.


A little more 'risky' but may be worth a try if you feel comfortable:

7. Valve sockets may need a clean > Spray with contact cleaner and work valve in out (take care!)

8. Poor connection between Valve pins and Valve socket > adjust valve socket terminal (take care!) Google to get an idea.

9. Pull chassis and do a basic check of wires near jacks (dry solder joints, frayed wires, loose wires). Make sure jacks are tight / firm / seated properly. Check any connectors; they may be loose or contacting poorly. Warning! High voltages if capacitors are charged. You could get a good shock = serious injury/death. Discharge capacitors first to be absolutely sure it's safe. If you don't know what you are doing, then forget pulling the chassis and take the amp to a tech.


I can't think of anything else at the moment.

Try the simple stuff first. You want a process of elimination before taking your amp in to a tech.

-B

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:53 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Posts: 16
The first 3 preamp tubes (next to input) go in tight. I wonder if that could be cause? Looks like a few of the prongs that the pins go into are pushed together so it makes it for tight. Bad?? Also to let you guys know tried my passive pickup guitar, changing cables, no pedals straight to amp, etc. Still same. Thanks for ideas.

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Mesa Triple Rectifier 2008 3 CH
Jackson RR3 Japan Made
EMG 81/85
TS9
Decimator
Helix LT
Roland JC120


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Posts: 16
I'm wondering someone has taken it apart. So I'm thinking of looking at pot value. Supposed to be 250k I wonder if someone put it at 100k. If so I'm changing it back some ppl said do 1meg to really get gain at lower ranges. I only play high gain. Is it true the clean channel has a 1meg?? If so could I swap em?

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Mesa Triple Rectifier 2008 3 CH
Jackson RR3 Japan Made
EMG 81/85
TS9
Decimator
Helix LT
Roland JC120


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:16 am 
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Mark II

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:40 pm
Posts: 134
Location: Finland
Hypieran wrote:
I'm wondering someone has taken it apart. So I'm thinking of looking at pot value. Supposed to be 250k I wonder if someone put it at 100k. If so I'm changing it back some ppl said do 1meg to really get gain at lower ranges. I only play high gain. Is it true the clean channel has a 1meg?? If so could I swap em?

I've tried 250k, 500k and 1Meg gain pots on my clones and 250k is my choice. 500k can work alright and some even like it with 1 Meg, but for me it's just an overkill. I'd just hit the frontend with a booster, but YMMV. If you find your amp to have 100k gain pot, I'd definitely swap that with 250k audio pot.


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