Tight High Gain Recto Mods

[dtrax]

I also tried to keep the master level as low as possible, using SEND at max and OUTPUT as needed.

I have channel 2 and 3 masters lower than 10 o clock. This because I should then put the clean master at 11-12 (and the gain clean also at 12) to match the volume and it starts to have a sort of crunchy sound.

What exactly does the cap on output?

I have a stock 3ch Triple Recto. What mod can I do to have a "2ch" similar sound?

Thanks!

Jumpering the cap on the Output pot, in practice, restores some of the low end lost when using Loop Active. IOW, it sounds a bit fuller (e.g., less tone suck). In theory I'm unsure why this is TBH. That pot has a 330K resistor in parallel tying the input to the wiper, with said cap in series. In my limited knowledge, I assumed this was a bright cap, but the opposite effect occurred when I jumpered it. It wasn't a night and day difference, but as with most things, small increments here and there contribute to the bigger picture. The brightness/fizziness is still present, but that can be dialed back with the treble/presence pots to some degree. For example, I keep the Treble at 2:00 with Loop Bypassed, but dial it back to 1:00 with Loop Active.

The only time I ever played a 2CH was waaay back in the early/mid nineties when I was just starting out on guitar. So, to answer your question, I'm not entirely sure. Search for "Pre 500 Recto" and there's a long thread about guys chasing said tone. Generally speak though, aside from those very early rectos (Rev C-E), they're all more or less the same. Sure, one small component can make a big impact, but whether or not that is "better" is entirely subjective.

[DS-1]

I also tried to keep the master level as low as possible, using SEND at max and OUTPUT as needed.

I have channel 2 and 3 masters lower than 10 o clock. This because I should then put the clean master at 11-12 (and the gain clean also at 12) to match the volume and it starts to have a sort of crunchy sound.

What exactly does the cap on output?

I have a stock 3ch Triple Recto. What mod can I do to have a "2ch" similar sound?

Thanks!

Jumpering the cap on the Output pot, in practice, restores some of the low end lost when using Loop Active. IOW, it sounds a bit fuller (e.g., less tone suck). In theory I'm unsure why this is TBH. That pot has a 330K resistor in parallel tying the input to the wiper, with said cap in series. In my limited knowledge, I assumed this was a bright cap, but the opposite effect occurred when I jumpered it. It wasn't a night and day difference, but as with most things, small increments here and there contribute to the bigger picture. The brightness/fizziness is still present, but that can be dialed back with the treble/presence pots to some degree. For example, I keep the Treble at 2:00 with Loop Bypassed, but dial it back to 1:00 with Loop Active.

The only time I ever played a 2CH was waaay back in the early/mid nineties when I was just starting out on guitar. So, to answer your question, I'm not entirely sure. Search for "Pre 500 Recto" and there's a long thread about guys chasing said tone. Generally speak though, aside from those very early rectos (Rev C-E), they're all more or less the same. Sure, one small component can make a big impact, but whether or not that is "better" is entirely subjective.

Wow, this reply made my day!

I already did the "presence pot mod" on channel 3, changing the pot from stock to 25k and now channel 3 sounds very close to channel 2. A lot of fizzy is gone.

With caps mod I could improve the sound...

Is there any tutorial to do it? I believe it's a simple mod, but I want to be sure of doing the right jumper!

[dtrax]

I recommend learning a bit more about tube amps and electronics in general before you attempt to mod your amp. No offense, but if you're unsure of what to jumper, that suggests you lack the basic knowledge of reading schematics and signal tracing the PCB. It's not hard to learn, but it's essential for your safety. YouTube has everything you need to know.

[DS-1]

I recommend learning a bit more about tube amps and electronics in general before you attempt to mod your amp. No offense, but if you're unsure of what to jumper, that suggests you lack the basic knowledge of reading schematics and signal tracing the PCB. It's not hard to learn, but it's essential for your safety. YouTube has everything you need to know.

Yes, you're right!

I'd like to learn more about it, because i want to experiment before sell it to get a 2ch...that's why I want to know how the 3ch sounds with these mods. I can solder, but I need to improve my learning about electronics.

Do you think that it's possible to do a tutorial to make these mods easier?

[Shemham]

I have a stock 3ch Triple Recto. What mod can I do to have a "2ch" similar sound?
Thanks!

3-channel Rectos have 20uF filtering at the parallel power supply nodes of the preamp while 2-channels models have 30uF in these positions. Swap the two pairs of parallel 10uF electrolytic filter caps in the power supply with 15uF caps with similar (or better) specs. This task is not that simple as you have to lift the circuit board in order to work with the caps.

[DS-1]

I have a stock 3ch Triple Recto. What mod can I do to have a "2ch" similar sound?
Thanks!

3-channel Rectos have 20uF filtering at the parallel power supply nodes of the preamp while 2-channels models have 30uF in these positions. Swap the two pairs of parallel 10uF electrolytic filter caps in the power supply with 15uF caps with similar (or better) specs. This task is not that simple as you have to lift the circuit board in order to work with the caps.

Very cool mod! Have you tried It? How the sound changes?

Instead what about the 100ohm resistor to jumper?

[Shemham]

Very cool mod! Have you tried It? How the sound changes?

Instead what about the 100ohm resistor to jumper?

Not on an actual Rectifier, but I've compared between 10uF, 20uF and 30uF caps on my SLO/Recto-clone I've built. In my experience, the higher you go, the more punchy, bigger and less compressed the amplifier feels. It feels as if the amp slightly cleans up. The lower value caps provide slightly less bottom-end and make the feel more compressed.

IMO, the 100ohm resistors on cathodes have somewhat unique effect. They slightly reduce the gain boost that the cathode caps provide and flatten the frequency response. This seems to result in a slightly more pronounced lowend with less upper mids and treble. This in turn increases the hair and grind when e.g. playing power chords which is one part of the Rectifier trademark tone. The price is paid in somewhat dampened attack. If the 100ohm resistors are jumped, there is slight gain increase in the mids and treble.

[dtrax]

It's been a while since I've been around here. Had some real life stuff going that pulled me away from fun stuff, like modding amps. . Anyway, I figured I should report back having put my amp through it's paces with my band.

Welp, I have to be honest. I've reversed a few of my mods. Fact is, Mesa pretty much "got it right" (no surprise TBH). I did keep some, which I'll go over shortly, but suffice to say that often times the "easiest" answer is many times the "best" answer. And the easiest solution is to just use a damn OD pedal in front of the amp lol.

So what did I reverse? The coupling caps were restored back to .02uf. Yes, using .0022's cleaned up the low end substantially, but at gig volumes the low end was just "off". It didn't "thump" in the right way. Instead it was just sort of boxy and odd. I also changed V1a bypass cap back to 1uf and reconnected the 2M2 load resistor. I kept all the other mods.

So, next up I'm going to mess with CH1 and see where it can go. I want to get more brightness out of it; something more Blackface. Going over the schematic there are plenty of areas to increase the top end. Should be interesting...

TL;DR: Just use a tubescreamer if you play metal with a recto.

[afu]

I updated the page regarding the voicing circuit, gain, and load resistor.

[DS-1]

I have a 2005 3ch Triple Rectifier and I'm doing some tone tests.

I need to use the FX loop on (I've modded it to have a serial loop, I have a lot of modulation pedals and I really like the SOLO function), and I'm experimenting what's the best tone according to my ears.

First, I used a very low master channel for 2 and 3 ch (master is at 11 for channel 2 set to VINTAGE and 8-9 for channel set to MODERN), with cranked SEND pot (very near to MAX level). In this way I can have a very clean channel. I like the sound of the clean channel, but channel 2 and 3 are too scooped. It seems like the mids don't come out due to the low master channel.

If I use different master channel volumes, the situation is a bit different: SEND know at 12, channel 2 at 1 o clock with VINTAGE setting and channel 3 at 10-11 o clock with MODERN setting. These channels now are really crunchy. I lowered the gain a bit, the tone is full of mids. But I can't have a real clean channel, because I need to push it hard to level the volumes with the other two channels (master at 3 o clock, gain around the same setting), but obviously it is WAY TOO cruncky to be a clean channel.

The question is: there no mod for the clean to at least match the volume level of the other two channels? Obviously I have this issue only when I use FX loop on and crank the master volume of the channel 2 and 3.

[Snow006]

I have to commend people who post mods and are capable of modifying their amplifier but I'm not one of them.

The best solution I found for a tighter recto is to buy a Siemens E83CC triple mica for V1.

[afu]

I have to commend people who post mods and are capable of modifying their amplifier but I'm not one of them.

The best solution I found for a tighter recto is to buy a Siemens E83CC triple mica for V1.

I've been using a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal in front of mine. Running it 12V with a crooked frown (max 0dB; min -10db) and the gain up to ~12dB. I now have a Switch DR pedal looper/midi controller to use it only when I need to.

I want a TC Electronic Spark Booster (4 knob) and/or a used Nova Drive for more options and flexibility.

[dtrax]

I have a 2005 3ch Triple Rectifier and I'm doing some tone tests.

I need to use the FX loop on (I've modded it to have a serial loop, I have a lot of modulation pedals and I really like the SOLO function), and I'm experimenting what's the best tone according to my ears.

First, I used a very low master channel for 2 and 3 ch (master is at 11 for channel 2 set to VINTAGE and 8-9 for channel set to MODERN), with cranked SEND pot (very near to MAX level). In this way I can have a very clean channel. I like the sound of the clean channel, but channel 2 and 3 are too scooped. It seems like the mids don't come out due to the low master channel.

If I use different master channel volumes, the situation is a bit different: SEND know at 12, channel 2 at 1 o clock with VINTAGE setting and channel 3 at 10-11 o clock with MODERN setting. These channels now are really crunchy. I lowered the gain a bit, the tone is full of mids. But I can't have a real clean channel, because I need to push it hard to level the volumes with the other two channels (master at 3 o clock, gain around the same setting), but obviously it is WAY TOO cruncky to be a clean channel.

The question is: there no mod for the clean to at least match the volume level of the other two channels? Obviously I have this issue only when I use FX loop on and crank the master volume of the channel 2 and 3.

The reason you're getting more mids and crunch when pushing the channel Outputs (or cranking the FX Send level) is because the tubes down stream of the tone stacks are beginning to distort. I'm not talking about power tube distortion; you're literally overdriving the FX send/return and/or the phase splitter (V4 and V5). There isn't anything wrong with that, but there's no way to get a clean tone when you're slamming those stages.

The volume discrepancy is the lack of negative feedback in the power section when in Modern mode. As you've noticed, if you want to have a truely "clean" channel 1, CH2/3 Modern output needs to be set around 9-10:00 at most.

The best way to get more mids out of CH2/3 Modern is to roll back the Bass. But to get that crunchy tone (from clipping V4/V5) you will have to sacrifice your clean tone.

Thinking about it, you *could* disconnect the NFB relay for CH1 (assuming it's even that easy) - that would give the clean channel a huge boost in volume. Would probably be much louder than Modern mode in fact. But unless you know what you're doing, I wouldn't go messing around as you'll more than likely screw things up.

[dtrax]

I updated the page regarding the voicing circuit, gain, and load resistor.

Thanks for sharing. Your site is one of the inspirations for me learning about tube amps.

Oh, and speaking of boosting rectifiers and whatnot... I've started gather parts for a DIY amp build. The power amp is loosely based on a Fender DR (6V6 in p-p). For the preamp however, I'm flirting with the idea of building a SLO/Recto overdrive circuit with an additional gain stage and simplified tone stack tacked on the front end. Basically a Recto/Mark love child. The inspiration comes from the fact that so many Recto users resort to EQs, ODs, etc up front to filter out the lows, why not just build it into the amp itself?! I'll be building each section on separate turret boards so swapping out preamp "cards" should be relatively simple. I'll start a new thread once I get the ball rolling.

[afu]

I updated the page regarding the voicing circuit, gain, and load resistor.

Thanks for sharing. Your site is one of the inspirations for me learning about tube amps.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

FYI, I found that I made a couple of mistakes with the math for the "Design Concepts' articles. There were a couple of really misguided articles I deleted. I hadn't thought everything through as well as I could have, but I've fixed most of it. I'm just really ill all of the time, so my blog has not even taken a backseat, because it's in the trunk.

Jumpering the cap on the Output pot, in practice, restores some of the low end lost when using Loop Active. IOW, it sounds a bit fuller (e.g., less tone suck). In theory I'm unsure why this is TBH. That pot has a 330K resistor in parallel tying the input to the wiper, with said cap in series. In my limited knowledge, I assumed this was a bright cap, but the opposite effect occurred when I jumpered it. It wasn't a night and day difference, but as with most things, small increments here and there contribute to the bigger picture. The brightness/fizziness is still present, but that can be dialed back with the treble/presence pots to some degree. For example, I keep the Treble at 2:00 with Loop Bypassed, but dial it back to 1:00 with Loop Active.

It's a treble bleed. I've done a similar thing on the pot to one of my guitars. You don't have to jumper it. Having both components removed is the best thing for a mod. A jumper will allow a bypass path for a signal.

The parallel resistor fixes the cutoff frequency of the capacitor into one place. Mesa has it set somewhere around 10 kHz (I'm spit balling). Those are not only helping those higher frequencies through; It's capping them so the power amp doesn't oscillate. Removing both won't cause that issue until the control is at 2:00 or more and the MVs are also cranked. Since that sounds like sh!t, I don't think it's going to be a problem.

With the bleed removed, the Output should react more like the MV does when the loop is off. As far as I can reason, the difference is that there're now two volume controls, so it should be setup with a low-ish positioning of the Output in mind. I'd first try to set the Output where I want it and increase the MV of my dirt channel until it's loud enough for performance.

This mod is on my to-do list. It's the only thing that I'm going to change, since I've already done the series loop mod.

(edit)

I forgot to mention that the Road King does not have the treble bleed in it. That's my inspiration for removing it.