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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

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Hi guys :) this is my first post here. I have a dual rec 3 channel multi watt head that is almost 2 years old. And I have always used it with the loop bypassed because the tone is more open and clear. But today I fiddled around with a g-major in the loop and there was a lot of ugly fizzy bleed Noise. It is i serial loop right? Even when I unplugged the g-major and set the loop to bypass and turned the volume all the way down I could clearly hear the fizzy bleed tone. What's up with that? Is my amp broken? Or is this normal? The loop is useless if I can't get 100% wet sound using effects. I am using a Torpedo live unit as a load box and with impulses so I can hear all the little bleeds and stuff through my headphones. Any thoughts on this matter?
Cheers.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Each 12AX7 is actually two separate circuits. What you hear at very low volumes is signal being produced in one half of the tube bleeding over into the other half of the tube. It's not an issue at normal operating volumes because the normal signal is much more powerful than the bleed signal, it only really becomes an issue at very low volumes where the bleed signal overpowers the normal signal.

Long story short, Dual Rectifiers weren't designed to operate at very low volumes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:18 am 
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Bottle Rocket

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But that doesn't explain the leakage when trying to do a wet delay or ambient sound with effects in the loop. There shouldn't be any dry sound in the path. That has got to be a flaw.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Bigshredder wrote:
But that doesn't explain the leakage when trying to do a wet delay or ambient sound with effects in the loop.


Where are your channel masters set?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:25 am 
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Bottle Rocket

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Is I use the loop I set it to taste. Usually at noon. But If I bypass the loop I set my master all the way down. Then it is bypassed and I only use the channel volume. But the bleed happens when I turn down att the volume or use the loop with effects.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Have you tried changing the FX loop driver tube?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

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No I havn't. I bypass the loop and the bleed/leak is there when I turn down the volume to silent.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:44 pm 
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Bigshredder wrote:
I bypass the loop and the bleed/leak is there when I turn down the volume to silent.


That's normal. It's bleed across the triodes in the preamp tubes.

The amp wasn't designed to run silently, it was designed to drive a cabinet at normal (for guitar) volumes.

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Ignore the hype and trust your ears. Play more, buy less = better tone.

| Les Paul | McCarty | Custom 24 | CE 22 |
| D800 | Dual Rectifier | Electra Dyne | Rectoverb:25 | Strategy 8:88 |
| Powerhouse 410 | Recto 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 | Subway 112, 115 |


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:43 am 
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Mark I
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screamingdaisy wrote:
Bigshredder wrote:
I bypass the loop and the bleed/leak is there when I turn down the volume to silent.


That's normal. It's bleed across the triodes in the preamp tubes.

The amp wasn't designed to run silently, it was designed to drive a cabinet at normal (for guitar) volumes.


Modern modes in Roadster Ch3/4 has this bzzzzzzz sound when playing at home compliant levels. A bit too loud for home and the buzz is gone ;)...

If somebody wants silent operation from 100W tube head and cab with speaker sensitivity ~100db/W the tooling is wrong for the situation. :P Even mini recto is too much an amp for home use with normal speaker cab...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:35 am 
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Bottle Rocket

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Seriously guys!!! I am not running it silently!!! I am addressing an issue of a bleed noise that is there when using the loop and the same when turning the volume all the way down. All the way down means no noise att all!? Right? And to be unable to set the loop to 100 wet but still getting dry signal through must be a flaw in the design right? There must be something wrong when the amp is making buzzing bleed noises when setting the loop to 100 serial/wet. So you are saying that all amps with serial loops have a fair amount of dry bleed in the signal?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Bigshredder wrote:
There must be something wrong when the amp is making buzzing bleed noises when setting the loop to 100 serial/wet.


What effects are you running in your loop?

Are you running the Two Notes in the loop or are you using it off the speaker output?

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| Les Paul | McCarty | Custom 24 | CE 22 |
| D800 | Dual Rectifier | Electra Dyne | Rectoverb:25 | Strategy 8:88 |
| Powerhouse 410 | Recto 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 | Subway 112, 115 |


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

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The torpedo live works as a loadbox so the amp is connected to the speaker out. I tried a gmajor in the loop. Set it so serial so it would be 100% so I could try som ambient tones and som modulation/delay tones but the dry bleed (same buzz bleed as when turning the volume all the way down) is very present and it makes it impossible to use the serial loop function on the g-major due to an ugly fizzy sound.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Mark I
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As you have the torpedo live you could record clip with the buzz sound so it would be easier to hear what is it you mean? And how are all levels (ins/outs/mix) set in your signal chain (also in g-major)?

I do not have the torpedo so that's unfamiliar thingmabomb to me (I had Palmer loadbox... which somebody has recommended but I did not enjoy...)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:35 am 
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Bottle Rocket

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If I turn down all the vol on the dual rec and switch channels and imoulses on the live unit the sound changes so it definitely goes through the live and through the speaker out. But when I lower the torpedo live volume all the way down the sound disappears so it isn't the live unit that is making the noise from its load. And when I have the G-major connected the dry sound is constant even when I fiddle with the wet sound with delays and mods. So its leaking dry sound through the speaker out from the dual rec to the load/speaker from the preamp.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Bigshredder wrote:
The torpedo live works as a loadbox so the amp is connected to the speaker out. I tried a gmajor in the loop. Set it so serial so it would be 100% so I could try som ambient tones and som modulation/delay tones


"Serial" on the G-Major is a routing option for the effects and has nothing to do with your whether your amp's loop is series or parallel.

The setting in a G-Major for parallel loops is Kill-Dry. You want Kill-Dry on if you're using a parallel loop and Kill-Dry off if you're using a serial loop. In your case, you want Kill-Dry off.

Serial runs Pitch-Chorus-Delay-Reverb in series;

Image

Parallel runs Pitch, Chorus, Delay and Reverb in parallel.

Image


Quote:
but the dry bleed (same buzz bleed as when turning the volume all the way down) is very present and it makes it impossible to use the serial loop function on the g-major due to an ugly fizzy sound.


Is your effects loop send (on the back) set to "Normal" (12:00 position)?

How high are your channel masters set?

_________________
Ignore the hype and trust your ears. Play more, buy less = better tone.

| Les Paul | McCarty | Custom 24 | CE 22 |
| D800 | Dual Rectifier | Electra Dyne | Rectoverb:25 | Strategy 8:88 |
| Powerhouse 410 | Recto 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 | Subway 112, 115 |


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