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 Post subject: Dual recs from 2001-2010
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:12 am 
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Mark I

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:35 pm
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Location: San Diego, CA
I read on the 'Net (so it must be true) that the dual recs from about 2001-2010 sounded different (i.e.: worse) than the 90s DRs and the post 2010 recs. They say those recs sounded more "muddy" and "scooped" and possibly less aggressive.

Any truth to this? I'm in the hunt for one, so should I steer cleAr of these years? Or is this just Internet BS?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:07 am 
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Mark I

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Bueller....Bueller....Bueller?


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:49 am 
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Mark III
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Location: Chicago, IL
There is a thread by Silverwulf documenting the changes/revisions of the 3 channel rectifiers.

It depends on what you are looking for. I could tell you that the 3 channel rectos sound better than the 2 channel and multiwatts. Someone else will tell you the 2 channel's are the holy grail. You should try all of them and see which one YOU like.

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Mesa Boogie 2001 3 Channel Dual Rectifier
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:33 am 
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Mark I

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:35 pm
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deeman wrote:
There is a thread by Silverwulf documenting the changes/revisions of the 3 channel rectifiers.

It depends on what you are looking for. I could tell you that the 3 channel rectos sound better than the 2 channel and multiwatts. Someone else will tell you the 2 channel's are the holy grail. You should try all of them and see which one YOU like.

I know but it's more fun to like what everyone else likes!
But on a serious note...I never see recs in my local GC or any other store around here for that matter to try. I'll look for this thread and check it out.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Mark IV

Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:20 am
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I love my 3ch. I modified it a little. It's not muddy if a person knows how to dial it in correctly. Wouldn't mind a Reborn or a 2ch if I had the cash. I'm happy with what I have.

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2007 3 Channel Dual Recto w/loop mod

My Humble Music Tech Blog:
Dual Rectifier Index


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Mark I

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afu wrote:
I love my 3ch. I modified it a little. It's not muddy if a person knows how to dial it in correctly. Wouldn't mind a Reborn or a 2ch if I had the cash. I'm happy with what I have.

What are the "reborns"?


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Mark IV

Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:20 am
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The new one.

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2007 3 Channel Dual Recto w/loop mod

My Humble Music Tech Blog:
Dual Rectifier Index


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:51 am 
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Mark I

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afu wrote:
The new one.

How new? How are they different, if at all, from the others?


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Mark IV

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The 2011 model. It's a little bit different in its voicings and it has power settings for each channel, instead of global settings. Both are improvements, as is the fx loop.

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2007 3 Channel Dual Recto w/loop mod

My Humble Music Tech Blog:
Dual Rectifier Index


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:20 am 
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Mark II

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:40 pm
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Location: Finland
I'd be interested to get my hands on the schematics for the Reborn version. I never figured out any difference in the signal part of the circuit. I know thath the 2ch Rectos had more filtering in the preamp B+ supply nodes which definitely makes difference in the tone and response. The Reborn doesn't seem to have any such apparent deviations from the original 3 channel version save for the ganged presence pots.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Mark I

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Better low end....reborn? Or older?


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Mark IV

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Shemham wrote:
I'd be interested to get my hands on the schematics for the Reborn version. I never figured out any difference in the signal part of the circuit. I know thath the 2ch Rectos had more filtering in the preamp B+ supply nodes which definitely makes difference in the tone and response. The Reborn doesn't seem to have any such apparent deviations from the original 3 channel version save for the ganged presence pots.


I'd also be interested in seeing the schematic. I was under the impression something changed in the voicing circuit in series with the gain control. Raw was supposed to be better and it was said the sound was brighter than the earlier 3ch. If I had one I'd trace it to be sure.

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2007 3 Channel Dual Recto w/loop mod

My Humble Music Tech Blog:
Dual Rectifier Index


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:17 pm 
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Mark III
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Aside from Silverwulf's thread, Ill end this quick.

"They say those recs sounded more "muddy" and "scooped" and possibly less aggressive."

the Less aggressive thing is splitting hairs. the 3 channel circuit has a two 100K resistors in the preamp that if jumpered, gives the amp a little more aggressive feel to the picking attack. Enough that it is the only mod I left in my amp when I was tinkering trying to tailor my tone. It is NOT night and day after time, but there.

MUDDY and SCOOPED and RECTUMFRIER and all other internet bullshit describing a Rectifier are done by internet amp guru's who's claim to fame has been chasing the Van Halen debut album guitar tone through Marshall superleads using only an amp and not Templman's Neve nor the Reverb he used to act as a subtle distortion on the recorded guitar. Never mind if you listen to the October Nightmare demos Van Halen sounds exactly like VH2 did, thus negating the debut album chase. These same guys just plugged into a DR or TR or RV, or RM, or RK and used Marshall settings(these guys also hate and I mean HATE Marhsall 2203 models. and what happens when you put the master up all the way on one of our amps? At the same time turn your bass almost off, presence off, dime mids and highs? Please ANYONE who owns one? Yes sh!t. They do typical Marshall to Fender Twin crunch settings since Mr. Smith used to mod Fender amps. Still sounding like sh!t they turn the amp off and use their Plexi Palace or Queer Page good ol boy social standing to proclaim a Mesa Rectifier is sh!t and the only setting you can get out of it is to scoop it(which is true if you turn off presence, max out gain, and dime highs) and that is still horrendously ugly. Did any stop to read the manual? Not these guys, they ahve been trying to make it since 196x in a band. They used to be so f%&# clueless at both those places that after I got my Dual Rectifier and years before I started tweaking the insides and almost electrocuting myself four times (B+ will wake you up trust me Mesa bites are way way more intense than a Marshall's which uses 543V for B+) I recorded myself playing I'm the One using just the green channel on pushed and a tube scramer set to clean boost only and uploaded a link to Plexi Palace The thread was called How's my EVH tone? Guess the amp! I let it go for a month and when the thread stopped having traffic I posted a few photos and a short 10 second video. No other description. Another week and I started a thread called READ THE F**KIN MANUAL where I used some very visceral wording to attack the attacks on my new found beloved amp. Ive been banned from both PP and Gear Page since. Do I care? Not in the least have no need to join a community of closed minds like those places.

Do the two and three channels sound different? Yes they do. Night and day? Im on the fence. Do the multiwatt sound different than the older 3 channel? Yes, I found my usual settings sounded rather brittle, but was able to get a approximation to how I like to sound that didn't make me say the multiwatts were bad, I just found an amp I like and not going to buy a new one to get ability to go from 100 watts to half that. You only get what maybe a perceivable 3Db actual loudness difference and less clean headroom? On a Rectifier? Isn't clean headroom kind of the point so that the preamp is allowed to do its thing? A lunchbox version seems a better idea, but to each their own. Just not going to spend $2000 on a new amp any time soon when I can grab an older revision I am more accustomed to for <$1000 now and that wont happen since mine is still not totally blown up forcing me to have to get a new one. I also never had an issue with the FX loop either. setting the return all the way up and using the send to adjust for output volume is good enough since I only use an eq in the loop if used at all. I dont use time based effect enough to have a problem.

@Blenderhead You shouldn't find ANY Mesa's at GC ever. They used to carry them but tried doing some funky pricing thing that was against the agreement made with Mesa to be a retailer and Mesa products were pulled. Mesa sets the retailers ability to price an amp so it reflects the price guide across the board for all retailers from what I have been told by local retailers when I tried to get a better deal. Both were same price and both not budging.

SNOWFLAKE DISCLAIMER
If any one was offended by my language above, please know that I dont mean you personally, I am not politically correct, dont give a damn about anyone's lifestyle as long as not pushed on me and am not going to suddenly change my vernacular to accommodate your feelings. The world is harsh and I grew up dealing with that the best way I knew how. My era is the 80's and my beliefs and feelings reflect that as well as being raised by my grandparents of the 1930's-40's in the south. I try to give everyone a fair shake and judge by meritocracy. Hope you do the same.

_________________
Dual Rectifier
Recto 4 x 12 Straight v30s

Ibanez RG560
BC Rich Beast (Fully Understand it's namesake now)

"Efficiunt Daemones, ut quae non sunt, sic tamen quasi sint, conspicienda hominibus exhibeant." - Lactantius


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:11 am 
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Mark III
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:13 pm
Posts: 228
Location: Chicago, IL
bjorn218 wrote:
Aside from Silverwulf's thread, Ill end this quick.

"They say those recs sounded more "muddy" and "scooped" and possibly less aggressive."

the Less aggressive thing is splitting hairs. the 3 channel circuit has a two 100K resistors in the preamp that if jumpered, gives the amp a little more aggressive feel to the picking attack. Enough that it is the only mod I left in my amp when I was tinkering trying to tailor my tone. It is NOT night and day after time, but there.

MUDDY and SCOOPED and RECTUMFRIER and all other internet bullshit describing a Rectifier are done by internet amp guru's who's claim to fame has been chasing the Van Halen debut album guitar tone through Marshall superleads using only an amp and not Templman's Neve nor the Reverb he used to act as a subtle distortion on the recorded guitar. Never mind if you listen to the October Nightmare demos Van Halen sounds exactly like VH2 did, thus negating the debut album chase. These same guys just plugged into a DR or TR or RV, or RM, or RK and used Marshall settings(these guys also hate and I mean HATE Marhsall 2203 models. and what happens when you put the master up all the way on one of our amps? At the same time turn your bass almost off, presence off, dime mids and highs? Please ANYONE who owns one? Yes sh!t. They do typical Marshall to Fender Twin crunch settings since Mr. Smith used to mod Fender amps. Still sounding like sh!t they turn the amp off and use their Plexi Palace or Queer Page good ol boy social standing to proclaim a Mesa Rectifier is sh!t and the only setting you can get out of it is to scoop it(which is true if you turn off presence, max out gain, and dime highs) and that is still horrendously ugly. Did any stop to read the manual? Not these guys, they ahve been trying to make it since 196x in a band. They used to be so f%&# clueless at both those places that after I got my Dual Rectifier and years before I started tweaking the insides and almost electrocuting myself four times (B+ will wake you up trust me Mesa bites are way way more intense than a Marshall's which uses 543V for B+) I recorded myself playing I'm the One using just the green channel on pushed and a tube scramer set to clean boost only and uploaded a link to Plexi Palace The thread was called How's my EVH tone? Guess the amp! I let it go for a month and when the thread stopped having traffic I posted a few photos and a short 10 second video. No other description. Another week and I started a thread called READ THE F**KIN MANUAL where I used some very visceral wording to attack the attacks on my new found beloved amp. Ive been banned from both PP and Gear Page since. Do I care? Not in the least have no need to join a community of closed minds like those places.

Do the two and three channels sound different? Yes they do. Night and day? Im on the fence. Do the multiwatt sound different than the older 3 channel? Yes, I found my usual settings sounded rather brittle, but was able to get a approximation to how I like to sound that didn't make me say the multiwatts were bad, I just found an amp I like and not going to buy a new one to get ability to go from 100 watts to half that. You only get what maybe a perceivable 3Db actual loudness difference and less clean headroom? On a Rectifier? Isn't clean headroom kind of the point so that the preamp is allowed to do its thing? A lunchbox version seems a better idea, but to each their own. Just not going to spend $2000 on a new amp any time soon when I can grab an older revision I am more accustomed to for <$1000 now and that wont happen since mine is still not totally blown up forcing me to have to get a new one. I also never had an issue with the FX loop either. setting the return all the way up and using the send to adjust for output volume is good enough since I only use an eq in the loop if used at all. I dont use time based effect enough to have a problem.

@Blenderhead You shouldn't find ANY Mesa's at GC ever. They used to carry them but tried doing some funky pricing thing that was against the agreement made with Mesa to be a retailer and Mesa products were pulled. Mesa sets the retailers ability to price an amp so it reflects the price guide across the board for all retailers from what I have been told by local retailers when I tried to get a better deal. Both were same price and both not budging.

SNOWFLAKE DISCLAIMER
If any one was offended by my language above, please know that I dont mean you personally, I am not politically correct, dont give a damn about anyone's lifestyle as long as not pushed on me and am not going to suddenly change my vernacular to accommodate your feelings. The world is harsh and I grew up dealing with that the best way I knew how. My era is the 80's and my beliefs and feelings reflect that as well as being raised by my grandparents of the 1930's-40's in the south. I try to give everyone a fair shake and judge by meritocracy. Hope you do the same.


It doesn't bother me if people on plexi place are not fans of the amp I use.

_________________
Mesa Boogie 2001 3 Channel Dual Rectifier
Ampeg 4x12 Cab
Gibson 2006 Les Paul Studio
https://soundcloud.com/authoritydrive


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Mark I

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:35 pm
Posts: 22
Location: San Diego, CA
bjorn218 wrote:
Aside from Silverwulf's thread, Ill end this quick.

"They say those recs sounded more "muddy" and "scooped" and possibly less aggressive."

the Less aggressive thing is splitting hairs. the 3 channel circuit has a two 100K resistors in the preamp that if jumpered, gives the amp a little more aggressive feel to the picking attack. Enough that it is the only mod I left in my amp when I was tinkering trying to tailor my tone. It is NOT night and day after time, but there.

MUDDY and SCOOPED and RECTUMFRIER and all other internet bullshit describing a Rectifier are done by internet amp guru's who's claim to fame has been chasing the Van Halen debut album guitar tone through Marshall superleads using only an amp and not Templman's Neve nor the Reverb he used to act as a subtle distortion on the recorded guitar. Never mind if you listen to the October Nightmare demos Van Halen sounds exactly like VH2 did, thus negating the debut album chase. These same guys just plugged into a DR or TR or RV, or RM, or RK and used Marshall settings(these guys also hate and I mean HATE Marhsall 2203 models. and what happens when you put the master up all the way on one of our amps? At the same time turn your bass almost off, presence off, dime mids and highs? Please ANYONE who owns one? Yes sh!t. They do typical Marshall to Fender Twin crunch settings since Mr. Smith used to mod Fender amps. Still sounding like sh!t they turn the amp off and use their Plexi Palace or Queer Page good ol boy social standing to proclaim a Mesa Rectifier is sh!t and the only setting you can get out of it is to scoop it(which is true if you turn off presence, max out gain, and dime highs) and that is still horrendously ugly. Did any stop to read the manual? Not these guys, they ahve been trying to make it since 196x in a band. They used to be so f%&# clueless at both those places that after I got my Dual Rectifier and years before I started tweaking the insides and almost electrocuting myself four times (B+ will wake you up trust me Mesa bites are way way more intense than a Marshall's which uses 543V for B+) I recorded myself playing I'm the One using just the green channel on pushed and a tube scramer set to clean boost only and uploaded a link to Plexi Palace The thread was called How's my EVH tone? Guess the amp! I let it go for a month and when the thread stopped having traffic I posted a few photos and a short 10 second video. No other description. Another week and I started a thread called READ THE F**KIN MANUAL where I used some very visceral wording to attack the attacks on my new found beloved amp. Ive been banned from both PP and Gear Page since. Do I care? Not in the least have no need to join a community of closed minds like those places.

Do the two and three channels sound different? Yes they do. Night and day? Im on the fence. Do the multiwatt sound different than the older 3 channel? Yes, I found my usual settings sounded rather brittle, but was able to get a approximation to how I like to sound that didn't make me say the multiwatts were bad, I just found an amp I like and not going to buy a new one to get ability to go from 100 watts to half that. You only get what maybe a perceivable 3Db actual loudness difference and less clean headroom? On a Rectifier? Isn't clean headroom kind of the point so that the preamp is allowed to do its thing? A lunchbox version seems a better idea, but to each their own. Just not going to spend $2000 on a new amp any time soon when I can grab an older revision I am more accustomed to for <$1000 now and that wont happen since mine is still not totally blown up forcing me to have to get a new one. I also never had an issue with the FX loop either. setting the return all the way up and using the send to adjust for output volume is good enough since I only use an eq in the loop if used at all. I dont use time based effect enough to have a problem.

@Blenderhead You shouldn't find ANY Mesa's at GC ever. They used to carry them but tried doing some funky pricing thing that was against the agreement made with Mesa to be a retailer and Mesa products were pulled. Mesa sets the retailers ability to price an amp so it reflects the price guide across the board for all retailers from what I have been told by local retailers when I tried to get a better deal. Both were same price and both not budging.

SNOWFLAKE DISCLAIMER
If any one was offended by my language above, please know that I dont mean you personally, I am not politically correct, dont give a damn about anyone's lifestyle as long as not pushed on me and am not going to suddenly change my vernacular to accommodate your feelings. The world is harsh and I grew up dealing with that the best way I knew how. My era is the 80's and my beliefs and feelings reflect that as well as being raised by my grandparents of the 1930's-40's in the south. I try to give everyone a fair shake and judge by meritocracy. Hope you do the same.

Thank you for the reply! This post was very helpful.


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