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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 221
Well, one thing that was revealing was I needed a new volume potentiometer. Sometimes, when I would roll the volume back up to 100% it would not quite make it. This happened with afu's settings and natural harmonics on the 5th fret were not coming out. I touched the volume knob and that was all the guitar needed for the harmonics to return and the volume pot. to actually reach 100%. The guitar is having the volume pot installed right now.

As people have said, compression, gain, and the 2000Hz - 3000Hz mid-range area seem to be your allies when you want "Bad Horsie" type harmonics. I can get those things if needed, but honest and informed opinions from other guitarists are much harder to get, which is why I posted this thread here. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:52 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2491
Location: North Carolina
Once in a while you need to have something to help the amp accentuate your technique. Pinch off harmonics was my thing back in the 90's. I gave it up a while ago but all of my Mark amps I had in the past were always eager to squeal to your desire. RA is also an easy pick too but with high gain settings used, it can get sloppy with feedback if you are too close to the speakers. The rectifier amps are a series I have never really understood. Love the Roadster for what it is. Pinch off harmonics are much easier on CH3 than in CH4 as the presence control seems to have more influence in CH3 and the other being much darker in its character. Somehow I believe there is more cancelling of the harmonics with the Roadster than with the other amps due to its darker tone.

Try using a stainless steel pick. That was a trick I used back in the day that worked every time.

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Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:24 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 221
bandit2013 wrote:
Somehow I believe there is more canceling of the harmonics with the Roadster than with the other amps due to its darker tone.


I'm glad you said that. The JPX-7 is not a solid body guitar. It has a chambered body. Chambered body guitars affect the harmonics of the vibrating string. That is where the internet led me in 14 different directions so I stopped reading. If the Roadster naturally cancels harmonics, and my guitar does something to the harmonic content of the strings, then that is pretty interesting to me and probably no one else.

I have never tried a stainless steel pick. I will look into it! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:52 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2491
Location: North Carolina
One complaint my band mates have made, all you do is pinch off harmonics... For some weird reason that is what I did most of the time ever since I learned how to do it. Now I rarely do it any more. Note: the stainless pick will alter the sound of the attack and you end up wearing out the strings quicker as the metal pick is not as forgiving as a plastic one. Even so, I generally use very heavy picks if they are plastic as I found thin picks do not do it for me. Also, the rounder part of the pick helps to get more skin on the string. I have tried aluminum, copper picks along with many other things not generally used with a guitar for different effects (steel ball bearing can be interesting with a delay). I stumbled upon some stainless still picks back in 1990 which became my favorite. I still have them and they are still in the same shape as when I first got them.

In general (but I could be wrong about this) Rectifier amps like the Roadster have the general EQ latter in the gain stages that a Mark series amp (which is practically the 2nd stage (except for ch2 of the Mark V). Having the tone controls farther down the chain allows for at least 3 gain stages on the raw guitar signal before it gets filtered. What does help is a transparent style compressor on the front end that allows the softer tone of the smaller strings to be emphasized and balances out the signal level across the spectrum. I have tried a few but they tend to add noise. Optical compressors tend to be more quiet with lower levels of white noise. Probably why I love the Strymon OB.1 compressor, I can barely tell if it is on or off when I am not playing the guitar. I have not tried a Keely, I would have if the OB.1 did not work out for me. I had a boss compressor a long time ago but gave that to a friend at the time I had given up playing. That one was OK.

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Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 221
bandit2013 wrote:
Once in a while you need to have something to help the amp accentuate your technique. Pinch off harmonics was my thing back in the 90's. I gave it up a while ago but all of my Mark amps I had in the past were always eager to squeal to your desire.


I experienced the same thing with the Mark Series. Why is that? I realize that is a simple question with a complex answer but a direct comparison might be helpful.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:09 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2491
Location: North Carolina
One other question comes to mind, what tube are you using in V1? This can make a huge difference in how the amp responds. I found the Mesa 12ax7 to be too dark in V1, tung sol 12ax7 adds a little more upper frequencies. A change in V2 can also make a difference as well. Leave the rest as is (mesa tubes). I have tried other tubes in the PI position but prefer the tone of the Mesa tube. However, a Sovtek LPS does seem to aid in brightness and makes the presence controls more reactive. I would not have thought that the PI tube would have any influence on tone, but for some reason it does with the Roadster (but it is not very dramatic change). As it seems, only the short plate Mesa (JJ) tubes work in the cathode follower circuits (as well as the Chinese versions) but there does not seem to be much to gain with a change in V3 or V5. Sorry if I derailed this post on a tube subject but may be key to what you are trying to achieve.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 221
Preamp tubes are all SPAX7's which were all changed at the same time. I am not actually trying to achieve anything. This thread is based on an observation made by someone else, which I happened to notice as well but never said anything, regarding harmonics being more difficult to play on Rectifiers as opposed to, in this case, the TC-50. The person who made this observation also loves Marshalls. I was wondering if people on this forum had noticed the same thing concerning harmonics through Rectifiers? One of the nice things about this forum is the objective discussion about Mesa/Boogie amplifiers. You guys understand the strengths and weaknesses of these amps and seem to share consistent observations. I was just curious what you had observed.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:38 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2491
Location: North Carolina
It is great to shed light on observation.... Especially if you do not have the opportunity to play the amp before buying. (my case with the JP-2C). Videos and recordings are one thing but does not give the buyer an idea for the feel of the amp. I love my Roadster as it is a polar opposite to the Mark V, being warm in its tone vs a colder top end on the V. JP sits in the middle and complements the Roadster quite well. No comment on the JP and V.

I prefer to use the Roadster as a rhythm amp but depends on what voice you are using. Modern will definitely be darker on CH4, CH3 is closer to the other Rectifiers. However, I have no experience with the newer versions of the DR and TR but have noticed they seem a bit different in tonal pallet than the Roadster. Actually before this post, I never really took notice.... All is good though as I bought the Roadster for what it is and not for what it can or cannot do as there are ways to work around it with additional help with external pedals. Sure there is plenty of gain on tap, but there is merit to using pedals to shape your tone. Same applies to the JP and the V.

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Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Donating Member
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:57 pm
Posts: 4448
Location: South of Heaven
IMO, the reason Marks and Marshalls project pinch harmonics better is due to compression... particularly when you consider that a Marshall will typically have a compressed overdrive stacked into it.

Due to their cold clipping stage Rectifiers produce a lot of distortion without applying a whole lot of gain (relative to a Mark). The net result is their characteristic chainsaw grind, but they never really get very compressed. This compression is why Marks sing... and the lack of is why Rectifiers are so percussive.

It took me a long time to embrace a Recto as a lead amp. It sounded awesome for rhythm, but it took me a long time to figure out how to use it for lead. Part of it was figuring out why turning up the gain made leads sound like mush and that I could get better lead tones at lower gain settings than I used for rhythm, and part of it was learning how to "under drive" the amp with a Tubescreamer.... dialling in the TS so that it add more gain stages (and compression) yet dialling back it's output so that it didn't the preamp as hard (creating a more compression with less distortion scenario).

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Ignore the hype and trust your ears. Play more, buy less = better tone.

| Les Paul | McCarty | Custom 24 | CE 22 |
| D800 | Dual Rectifier | Electra Dyne | Rectoverb:25 | Strategy 8:88 |
| Powerhouse 410 | Recto 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 | Subway 112, 115 |


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:36 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 221
bandit2013 wrote:
It is great to shed light on observation.... Especially if you do not have the opportunity to play the amp before buying. (my case with the JP-2C). Videos and recordings are one thing but does not give the buyer an idea for the feel of the amp. I love my Roadster as it is a polar opposite to the Mark V, being warm in its tone vs a colder top end on the V. JP sits in the middle and complements the Roadster quite well. No comment on the JP and V.

I prefer to use the Roadster as a rhythm amp but depends on what voice you are using. Modern will definitely be darker on CH4, CH3 is closer to the other Rectifiers. However, I have no experience with the newer versions of the DR and TR but have noticed they seem a bit different in tonal pallet than the Roadster. Actually before this post, I never really took notice.... All is good though as I bought the Roadster for what it is and not for what it can or cannot do as there are ways to work around it with additional help with external pedals. Sure there is plenty of gain on tap, but there is merit to using pedals to shape your tone. Same applies to the JP and the V.


The reasons I bought my Roadster were very different. They basically came down to these three:
1. I needed a proper tube amp.
2. I didn't want to go through the hassle of biasing the amp when I changed tubes.
3. A guy was selling his 2x12 Combo for a suspiciously low price. His story made sense though. :lol:

After grad school, I became an exponentially better electric guitarist by plugging my Ibanez RG2228GK straight into my Roadster with Petrucci's Road King settings dialed in and practicing. (My Masters degree is in classical guitar performance which changed my life but did not improve my alternate picking.) However, now I do agree there is merit in shaping your tone with pedals. The reality is, if you consider a 100 watt tube amp a Lamborghini, I like to play at "idle." :lol: Eventually that will not be the case and then all bets will be off. I will use whatever works to get the sound I want/need while keeping it under control.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:34 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2491
Location: North Carolina
+1, what screamingdaisy said....

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:45 pm 
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Mark IV

Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 646
Location: Tucson, AZ
Been using Vintage a lot with a boost. As Screaming Daisy said, driving the front with less amp gain does wonders for harmonics. It also brings out a brighter character in the sound compared to just jacking up the amp gain.

I've recently started running the channel volume as low as I can on the dirt channels. It helps me dial in sounds more easily and gives more leeway with balancing the cleans. I then put the Output where I need it for final volume.

Vintage comes through more clearly, the lows are tighter and it has massive punch. With the drive pedal volume well up and the gain on just a hair, the harmonics leap out. That's while putting the amp gain at 10:30 to 11.

_________________
2007 3 Channel Dual Recto w/loop mod

My Humble Music Tech Blog:
Dual Rectifier Index


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:34 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:48 am
Posts: 231
Of course you guys are right about the reduced gain for lead playing on the roadster/roadking ch3 vintage. Before I sold my Recto I always wondered about the petrucci settings which didnt work for me: he used to set the gain in ch3 vintage to 100% - Wtf??? To me that felt like I had a fuzz pedal in front of the amp... Is there anyone that plays with 100% gain? I think those settings are impossible.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Mark IV

Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 646
Location: Tucson, AZ
APEMAN wrote:
Of course you guys are right about the reduced gain for lead playing on the roadster/roadking ch3 vintage. Before I sold my Recto I always wondered about the petrucci settings which didnt work for me: he used to set the gain in ch3 vintage to 100% - Wtf??? To me that felt like I had a fuzz pedal in front of the amp... Is there anyone that plays with 100% gain? I think those settings are impossible.


Only on Pushed or Raw have I maxed the gain.

With Vintage, there's a couple of ways to get the fuzzy maxed tone, but retaining the full use of the EQ.

One way is to put the gain at 1 or 2 o'clock and boost the front really hard. I like using an EQ pedal with the level at 15db and making a slight, crooked frown to make middle stand out and kill the treble above 2khz. The amp's bass needs to be dialed back a bit from the position of the mid control to clean up the bottom (if mid's on 11, put bass at shy of 11).

Or use Modern set dark and sizzling.

_________________
2007 3 Channel Dual Recto w/loop mod

My Humble Music Tech Blog:
Dual Rectifier Index


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 221
APEMAN wrote:
Of course you guys are right about the reduced gain for lead playing on the roadster/roadking ch3 vintage. Before I sold my Recto I always wondered about the petrucci settings which didnt work for me: he used to set the gain in ch3 vintage to 100% - Wtf??? To me that felt like I had a fuzz pedal in front of the amp... Is there anyone that plays with 100% gain? I think those settings are impossible.


These are the only Petrucci Road King settings I have ever been able to find. Were you using these or are there others?

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