Some Questions and Advice

Hi All.
I have a Triple recto 3 channel that i'm having issues with the clean channel. Basically the clean sounds overdriven. No matter what I've tried to do with the settings, tubes, switches, knobs etc. i can't get any cleans out of this head. I'm considering switching to a Roadster or a Mark V. I need to have good cleans...as good as my triple used to be or better, serial loop, 3 channel and solo boost. I wont be playing any hard core death metal stuff, I need something very versatile. From what I've researched, the roadster is more versatile than the mark V. I'm in a cover band playing lead guitar with music ranging from Sass Jordan and Adele to Seether and Rage Against the Machine. What do you guys recommend?

mastora said:

I need to have good cleans...as good as my triple used to be or better

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So by this I assume something changed in your amp. I'd advise you to take the amp in to a tech and have it repaired. Viola', no need to drop thousands on a replacement.

I am taking it to a tech soon. If it's going to cost too much to fix then ill probably go out and buy one of the two amps I mentioned. This is the third time in one year that I've had to take it in for repair. Each time it's been for something different. It's getting a bit frustrating.

Did you check to make sure the EL34/6L6 switch is correct? Do the other channels sound right? Have you tried a different outlet or an outlet in a room on another breaker? Is this with any guitar? Is it smooth distortion or a scattershot, coarse sound like electrons not flowing in the right direction? Is the Send knob around Noon (not turned way up or maxed)?

If that head is messed up, you might do better with another one of the same model. Even quality, well built, products can have isolated issues.

Yes i checked the EL34/6L6 switch. It is correct. The other channels sound right. I've tried different outlets and 2 different cabs. Its does it wil all guitars. I'm afraid the best way to discribe the distorion is like the "Pushed" switch on, but not as pushed. Kind of like running out of head room when turning up the volume too much. The send knob is at noon. I think there is something wrong with the head. I'm going to check all the tubes again. I only checked the power tubes and the V1 tube. Although I've switched it to silicone diode at the back and no change. I'm going to try to plug straight in with out my GT-10 hooked up and see what happens. I use the GT-10 in 4CM.
Thanks for your help.

Does it sound different when Push is selected?

Yes. Pushed setting has a nice crunch but on clean it sounds less crunch and more break up.

If available, you might try contact cleaner on V1 and V2 sockets with the amp unplugged and the tubes removed. If you have something to clean the holes (or use an old tube), you can work any oxidation or residue off. Make sure it's dry before you turn it back on.

V1b is the only section of the Clean/Pushed channel that doesn't share space with the other channels. A sound like that is likely from some disturbance with the 330K grid leak resistor or the 1.5K cathode resistor. Hopefully, it's just residue or something and can be cleaned with contact cleaner. If the cathode becomes less positive to the grid or the grid gains charge, the bias can change, the electrons can become attracted to the grid (and becomes worse if more voltage is applied), or it can stop amplifying altogether. The 330K resistor allows the grid to discharge stray electrons that become attracted. The cathode resistor allows the tube to bias itself by keeping the cathode more positive than the voltage to the grid as the signal changes. A problem with one or the other could do this.

Cleaning both sockets will ensure that all the contacts for the Clean channel are taken care of. You can use the cleaner on any pots that crackle on your other gear and save $20 or more from a repairman who's probably just cleaning them, too.

mastora said:

I'm going to try to plug straight in with out my GT-10 hooked up and see what happens. I use the GT-10 in 4CM.

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Definitely do that. What you're describing sounds like it could something as simple as your amp overdriving the GT input. That would be a lot easier & cheaper to fix than sending the amp to a tech. (Let alone buying a different amp.)

Thank You for all your time and help. I'll let you know the results soon. Would rubbing alcohol work instead of contact cleaner?

mastora said:

......... Would rubbing alcohol work instead of contact cleaner?

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Not without some scrubbing. IMO Caig Lab Deoxit is the best for this:
http://www.parts-express.com/caig-d...source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

Every player should have a can.

Dom

Another thing that occurred to me is the heater for V1 is separated from the rest of the heaters in a circuit that lowers noise. With old amps that only used tube rectifiers, they didn't require a standby switch, because the amp wouldn't work until the rectifier warmed up and that didn't really cause problems. Once they switched to bridge diode rectification, a standby became necessary, because diodes don't warm up; they are good to go from the moment you apply power. If a person were to turn on power and then flip the standby before it became warm, there is a little bit of a possibility that the rush of current may cause damage to the circuitry or tube. I wish I could remember where to find the reference, but when I studied Merlin Blencowe's and Richard Keunhel's books on amplifier design, I remember some commentary about it. So, it could be considered if you use the diode rectifiers.

Something with the 15K dropping resistor in the supply section for the D power rail that supplies V1 could have an issue, but I doubt that one. It might increase the B+ to, perhaps, a couple volts lower than rail C (or equal to), and that would make the bias shift enough to distort half of the signal without much effort.

The massive amounts of overtones in an amp like a Recto could mask headroom issues in one tube when using the dirty channels, but I think noise in V1a would be amplified along with everything else and it would be noticeable. V2a would not be as dramatic on channels 2 and 3. It's following stage, V2b, is biased down into the most distorted, cold area of the load line, has no cathode bypass cap to increase the gain, and has a low pass filter on the anode to keep the treble from oscillating. In English: it's dark, distorts with almost no effort, and produces a bit less amplification boost than it could. My belief is that this one section is the James Earl Jones-ish voice of a Recto. It also might make a headroom issue in V2a less apparent due to treble being cut out.

I've been working with solid state pedals recently, so my tube knowledge feels rusty, but I believe the info is sound. My point is: if it isn't residue, the heaters could use a check up and any channel that's meant to distort could mask some issues.

I cleaned v1 and v2 with contact cleaner as you suggested and tried it at rehearsal last night and no change. Still terrible cleans. So its off to the repair man and then possibly up for sale. I love the tone from the triple but if its causing this many problems than you might see it on ebay or kijiji. The roadster seems to be looking like a good replacement.
I'll post me findings once I fond out whats wrong with the amp. Thank you all for your suggestions and help.

mastora said:

I cleaned v1 and v2 with contact cleaner as you suggested and tried it at rehearsal last night and no change. Still terrible cleans. So its off to the repair man and then possibly up for sale. I love the tone from the triple but if its causing this many problems than you might see it on ebay or kijiji. The roadster seems to be looking like a good replacement.
I'll post me findings once I fond out whats wrong with the amp. Thank you all for your suggestions and help.

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mastora said:

I'm going to try to plug straight in with out my GT-10 hooked up and see what happens.

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Did you eliminate the GT10 as a source of the distortion? It would be best to trouble shoot with only the guitar & amp.

I had the same issue with a GT6 and an '01 Triple. I just couldn't keep the cleans loud enough without overdriving the GT6's AD/DA converters.

Dom

Yes. I ran straight through and no change.

Good luck bro, be sure to post and let us know what it was.

Dom

I got a call from my amp tech and he said the the problem was coming from the effects loop jacks. I did run straight through like you suggested but left the loop jacks plugged in...I know I know...I should've taken the jacks out. My tech is going to replace the loop jacks with the gold plated ones. I'll let you know how it works during rehearsal in a couple of weeks.
Thanks for all your suggestions

I went to rehearsal last night with my new loop jacks installed and bingo!! Cleans are back and volume seems to be way louder that it was!! I'm happy it all worked out...just have to tweek my setting a bit more and I'm good to go!!!
I hope I don't have any more of these issues!!