Help with cutting through a band mix

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carpediem666
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by carpediem666 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:49 am

Yeah. I gotta say I hate presence up past noon. Makes the amp sound really nasal and it looses the recto thump.

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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by wolf » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:21 am

Get EL34´s or better KT77´s to for that Marshallish grindy midrange...In preamp dont´t use JJ tubes they are just too dark and try that Tung sol/Sino mix...Also cab is most important part in your tone...Just don´t use oversized cabs...Marshall 1960AV or any smaller cab with V30´s will do job well...Get Bare Knuckle Painkiller,Miracle Man or even C Pig for fuller thicker sound...
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by wolf » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:24 am

joe web wrote:i used to have my mids around 1-2 o´clock on my dual recto, highs a bit more as mids and bass somewhere between 11 and 1 o´clock - just how i liked it at that moment.
presence about 10 or 11 o´clock - on the 2 channel in vintage mode with silicone diodes.
using a marshall cab with G12T75s and V30s mixed.
never used any extra EQs with the recto.
for more sustain during solos i used and still use the MXR ZW-44 overdrive.
That´s the ticket...
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joe web
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by joe web » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:41 am

wolf wrote:Get EL34´s or better KT77´s to for that Marshallish grindy midrange...In preamp dont´t use JJ tubes they are just too dark and try that Tung sol/Sino mix...Also cab is most important part in your tone...Just don´t use oversized cabs...Marshall 1960AV or any smaller cab with V30´s will do job well...Get Bare Knuckle Painkiller,Miracle Man or even C Pig for fuller thicker sound...
of course, EL34s do a great job in the recto power amp! i´m running my roadster with EH EL34s since about 3 or 4 years now, and i´m really happy with it.
they increase the midrange, reduce that fizzy top-end and make the lows sound a bit more rounded - i like EL34s in recto-series amps.
Joe´s Band: Risky Whisky; Morbid Sky

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screamingdaisy
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by screamingdaisy » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:22 am

guitarrhinoceros wrote:I couldn't disagree more about the suggestion to turn up the presence. I always found that would make my Dual Rec sound too thin and 'not present' in the overall mix. I prefer to keep my presence around noon whenever I use a Rectifier on the road.
So you're disagreeing with my recommendation to turn up the presence yet suggest a value that's higher than the OP has his listed at?
Ignore the hype and trust your ears. Play more, buy less = better tone.

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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by guitarrhinoceros » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:06 pm

screamingdaisy wrote:
guitarrhinoceros wrote:I couldn't disagree more about the suggestion to turn up the presence. I always found that would make my Dual Rec sound too thin and 'not present' in the overall mix. I prefer to keep my presence around noon whenever I use a Rectifier on the road.
So you're disagreeing with my recommendation to turn up the presence yet suggest a value that's higher than the OP has his listed at?
I sense (maybe wrongfully) hostility in your text response. Unfortunately, I am disagreeing with your recommendation so I suppose the hostility will be present by default. For what it's worth, whenever I've rented a Dual Rec on the road, I've found the amp in general doesn't quite cut the way I want it to. Thus, I don't think the OP can really do much more than he already has to try to alleviate his problem. He's used V-30s, tried an EQ pedal, and seems to have tried doing a lot with the amp's on-board EQ, etc. I just don't agree that turning up the presence knob will yield him favorable results at gigging volumes, based on what he's written and what I know of the Dual Rectifier.

Do I love Rectifiers though? You betcha! It just depends on the application.

Sorry for any misunderstandings.

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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by guitarrhinoceros » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:09 pm

joe web wrote:
wolf wrote:Get EL34´s or better KT77´s to for that Marshallish grindy midrange...In preamp dont´t use JJ tubes they are just too dark and try that Tung sol/Sino mix...Also cab is most important part in your tone...Just don´t use oversized cabs...Marshall 1960AV or any smaller cab with V30´s will do job well...Get Bare Knuckle Painkiller,Miracle Man or even C Pig for fuller thicker sound...
of course, EL34s do a great job in the recto power amp! i´m running my roadster with EH EL34s since about 3 or 4 years now, and i´m really happy with it.
they increase the midrange, reduce that fizzy top-end and make the lows sound a bit more rounded - i like EL34s in recto-series amps.
Yup. IME, EL34s give the Dual Rectifier an immediately more lively feel and smoother gain structure, minus some of the stronger low end that the 6L6s naturally possess.

The difference is definitely something that is noticeable, at least from a players perspective.

carpediem666
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by carpediem666 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:23 am

Thanks for all the posts guys. I have band practice tonight so I will try a couple of methods. Higher mids silicon diodes. Only thing I can't change is the tubes lol. But I will look into getting some EL34's and trying those.

Also I have taken my eq pedal out as I didn't like the sound it was doing to the amp. I was getting a taint on the recto's sound so I'm going to see if I can just use the recto eq to sort out my problem.

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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by joe web » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:10 am

carpediem666 wrote:Thanks for all the posts guys. I have band practice tonight so I will try a couple of methods. Higher mids silicon diodes. Only thing I can't change is the tubes lol. But I will look into getting some EL34's and trying those.

Also I have taken my eq pedal out as I didn't like the sound it was doing to the amp. I was getting a taint on the recto's sound so I'm going to see if I can just use the recto eq to sort out my problem.
good luck and give us a quick update on the results.
Joe´s Band: Risky Whisky; Morbid Sky

carpediem666
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by carpediem666 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:06 am

hey guys

here is a video from one of my bands first gigs, i am playing at the back of the stage behind the singer, its not the best quality but can you give me an idea if im getting lost in the band mix? or wether its ok?

Thanks.

http://youtu.be/byX7qKnHVSk

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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by Heritage Softail » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:49 am

It sounds good an chunky thru the song. It looks like 90% of the time both guitars are playing the same chord progression. Not sure how to differentiate one guitar from the other, at least on a cam corder :lol:

Good band!

The singer is good. But tell her she needs to loose weight so she doesn't turn into a diva... The band name already reflects a chic in it :lol:
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by domct203 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:43 am

screamingdaisy wrote:Try turning the treble down.

The way the Recto's EQ works is that the signal is run in series from the treble, to the mids, then to the bass... and the higher you run each control the less signal is passed to the next in the series. So as you increase the treble you decrease the mids and bass, and vice versa. Sometimes when you want more mids it's actually more effective to turn down the treble than it is to turn up the midrange knob.

Additionally, don't be afraid of the presence knob. It operates in the upper midrange area and increasing it will add a lot of punch and immediacy to your sound, which can help you cut a bit better in a mix.
+1

This is spot on, and exactly how the EQ interacts. Try lower settings of the treble and compensate with more mids & presence.

Also try backing off the gain a bit as mentioned. As you increase the gain you increase the clipping (compression) of the gain stages resulting in a percieved loss of upper-mid/treble cut. Lower the gain and raise the master.

Dom

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Blaklynx
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by Blaklynx » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:46 am

carpediem666 wrote:Thanks for all the posts guys. I have band practice tonight so I will try a couple of methods. Higher mids silicon diodes. Only thing I can't change is the tubes lol. But I will look into getting some EL34's and trying those.

Also I have taken my eq pedal out as I didn't like the sound it was doing to the amp. I was getting a taint on the recto's sound so I'm going to see if I can just use the recto eq to sort out my problem.
From many reports I've read the Boss GE-7 isn't a great EQ pedal; tone suck and noisy. The MXR 10 band is an excellent pedal... I own it. It's quiet and I notice no tone loss when disengaged.

Heard the video.... the second song, (clean parts??) the top end of your guitar doesn't seem to stand out. You strumming all strings? Sounds weak and no clarity. Maybe it's the recording. I can hear the chugging when you hit the dirt channel.
Gotta love tubes!
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If you're interested in the chicken head knob replacement on my Roadster amp, go here:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.ph ... 98#p476098

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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by Blaklynx » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:55 am

domct203 wrote:
screamingdaisy wrote:Try turning the treble down.

The way the Recto's EQ works is that the signal is run in series from the treble, to the mids, then to the bass... and the higher you run each control the less signal is passed to the next in the series. So as you increase the treble you decrease the mids and bass, and vice versa. Sometimes when you want more mids it's actually more effective to turn down the treble than it is to turn up the midrange knob.

Additionally, don't be afraid of the presence knob. It operates in the upper midrange area and increasing it will add a lot of punch and immediacy to your sound, which can help you cut a bit better in a mix.
+1

This is spot on, and exactly how the EQ interacts. Try lower settings of the treble and compensate with more mids & presence.

Also try backing off the gain a bit as mentioned. As you increase the gain you increase the clipping (compression) of the gain stages resulting in a percieved loss of upper-mid/treble cut. Lower the gain and raise the master.

Dom
+2

I'd back the presence down and boost the top end with an EQ pedal in the loop. I did this with the MXR 10 band at 8 and 16kHz. I know, I know.... the guitars frequency range and so on..... however on Carvin's Quad-X preamp the Hi (treble) is centred around 10kHz from memory.
Gotta love tubes!
Image

If you're interested in the chicken head knob replacement on my Roadster amp, go here:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.ph ... 98#p476098

markblasco
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Re: Help with cutting through a band mix

Post by markblasco » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:36 am

Try boosting the 3k and 6k sliders a bit. If your issue is that your amp doesn't cut, those might be your best bet. If you add in another 2-3dB around there, you might get the cut you want without extra volume.

Also, try turning your bass down even more (or don't boost it with your pedal). A good guitar sound in a mix will sometimes sound a little light in the bass when played alone. Those bass frequencies make your guitar sound louder, but don't do anything to help it cut in the mix. As long as you have a bass player, and especially if you have another guitar or a keyboard, cutting the bass more than you might initially like will let you turn up the volume a little bit without it overpowering.

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