Is the Dual Rectifier still the right amp for me ?

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UnderJollyRoger

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Help me guys, please (sorry, this is going to be longer).

So, after owning the DR2010 for over a year now, I came to the conclusion, that I could be happy with this amp. It has everything I need (3 channles, switchable seriell loop, 2 master volumes) and sounds great. Obviously, most of you guys know how it sounds anyway.

So ... why am I crying for help ? The music I play is somewhere between rock and (normal) Metal. What I need the most is a tight, aggressive sound when palm-muting. Well, the Rectifier is probably not totally "untight" and aggressive enough, but I feel that it lacks a certain ... amount of crunch in the mids or whatever you may call it; plus, I need a good amount of volume to really push it to the sound I want, anyway.

To shorten this a little, I kind of spontaneously ordered a Marshall JVM410, after having read good things about it and listening to a lot of samples. While the amp isn't totally bad (clean and crunch are very nice actually), it doesn't shine either, especially in the High Gain regions, and, the biggest problem: both overdrive channels are hissy, squealy and feedbacky as hell, which makes the channels useless for practice room levels IMO. BUT, the Marshall seems to have more of this midrange bite/crunch/whatever that I want to hear, apparently (obviously, the british sound is more about mids).

So, what I'm probably looking for are answers to the following questions:

- is there a way to push the DR in the mentioned region of a more aggressive, crunchier midrange (remember, lots of fast palm muting going on) ? Raising Treble and/or Presence isn't really working.

- is there a way to tighten the Bass ? As mentioned above, it isn't really untight, but just a little more would be great ...

- is there a way to make this baby sound better at lower volumes ? To me, there really is point when you raise the channel volume to ... probably 10:00 or 10:30 (loop bypassed so no master volume for this test) when you feel and hear the amp come alive, but that's ... loud and I want to practice without earplugs if possible. BTW, is the comes-alive-with-a-certain-volume-level-thing an amp problem or a speaker problem ? Anybody ever tried this ?

I'm playing the amp over a Hughes & Kettner oversized 4x12 at the moment. Probably not bad, but I wouldn't mind buying a new one when it would help ... Guitar is a custom build, PRS/LP ******* with EMG's. Both shouldn't be too shabby, so I wouldn't search the problem here first.

I wouldn't mind, for example:

- putting EL34's in it.

- probably send it to an amp modder. Seems to be a common thing, anyway ...

- buy another cabinet. My bandmate has a Single Rectifier and (among others), a 2x12 Rectifer cabinet, so I can at least test that without problems.

The only thing I wouldn't really like is to put a tubescreamer in front, I like my distortion from the amp only if possible.


So, in conclusion, I like the amp and don't want to sell it, but it probably needs a little finetuning for me, if possible. As I have a rather high opinion of this board, I'd like you all to help me, if you can.

Feel free to comment as much as you like. I'm open for anything :)
 
When using a Tube Screamer in front of the amp it is not for the distortion, it is used to boost your guitar signal to overdrive the amp more and add compression and sustain. The pedal is used with the gain on (almost) zero, and the level extremely high.

With that said, I recommend you try boosting the amp. The TS-9 is great for this as it adds mids and removes a little bass from your guitar signal, both of which will "tighten" your sound. A Graphic EQ with an output level control can also work well, boost the mids, lower the bass and boost the output volume.

Or try a MKV LOL.

Dom
 
I own a rectifier, JVM and owned a Stiletto. All totally different beasts and will never get them to sound the same even changing tubes, speakers, cabs, ts9 etc.
In a perfect would you could get all in one amp!

As for the Rectifier I'd say the same as Dom, Boost up front, eq in the loop and id push the mids up and bass down on it. Run my mids at 3 o'clock and bass at 9 o'clock, but use your ears not your eyes to dial in.

If you like the upper midrange sound I'd go for a Stiletto (also heard good things about the Atlantic) or a JVM is more useable with something like a Decimator G String in the loop.

JVM's are very compressed (mushy) in high gain territory so best back off the gain (like with most amps!)

Stilettos are more boogie than Marshall in a good way, classy - quiet, well built and sound less fizzy than a Marshall with better bottom end.

After all that... I'd love a MK V
 
I don't have a dual rec, but EL34s in my Roadster gave it more "crunch" IMHO. Check out Haggerty's video, they do a nice comparison of 6L6s vs EL34s.
 
UnderJollyRoger said:
Help me guys, please (sorry, this is going to be longer).

So, after owning the DR2010 for over a year now, I came to the conclusion, that I could be happy with this amp. It has everything I need (3 channles, switchable seriell loop, 2 master volumes) and sounds great. Obviously, most of you guys know how it sounds anyway.

So ... why am I crying for help ? The music I play is somewhere between rock and (normal) Metal. What I need the most is a tight, aggressive sound when palm-muting. Well, the Rectifier is probably not totally "untight" and aggressive enough, but I feel that it lacks a certain ... amount of crunch in the mids or whatever you may call it; plus, I need a good amount of volume to really push it to the sound I want, anyway.

To shorten this a little, I kind of spontaneously ordered a Marshall JVM410, after having read good things about it and listening to a lot of samples. While the amp isn't totally bad (clean and crunch are very nice actually), it doesn't shine either, especially in the High Gain regions, and, the biggest problem: both overdrive channels are hissy, squealy and feedbacky as hell, which makes the channels useless for practice room levels IMO. BUT, the Marshall seems to have more of this midrange bite/crunch/whatever that I want to hear, apparently (obviously, the british sound is more about mids).

So, what I'm probably looking for are answers to the following questions:

- is there a way to push the DR in the mentioned region of a more aggressive, crunchier midrange (remember, lots of fast palm muting going on) ? Raising Treble and/or Presence isn't really working.

- is there a way to tighten the Bass ? As mentioned above, it isn't really untight, but just a little more would be great ...

- is there a way to make this baby sound better at lower volumes ? To me, there really is point when you raise the channel volume to ... probably 10:00 or 10:30 (loop bypassed so no master volume for this test) when you feel and hear the amp come alive, but that's ... loud and I want to practice without earplugs if possible. BTW, is the comes-alive-with-a-certain-volume-level-thing an amp problem or a speaker problem ? Anybody ever tried this ?

I'm playing the amp over a Hughes & Kettner oversized 4x12 at the moment. Probably not bad, but I wouldn't mind buying a new one when it would help ... Guitar is a custom build, PRS/LP ******* with EMG's. Both shouldn't be too shabby, so I wouldn't search the problem here first.

I wouldn't mind, for example:

- putting EL34's in it.

- probably send it to an amp modder. Seems to be a common thing, anyway ...

- buy another cabinet. My bandmate has a Single Rectifier and (among others), a 2x12 Rectifer cabinet, so I can at least test that without problems.

The only thing I wouldn't really like is to put a tubescreamer in front, I like my distortion from the amp only if possible.


So, in conclusion, I like the amp and don't want to sell it, but it probably needs a little finetuning for me, if possible. As I have a rather high opinion of this board, I'd like you all to help me, if you can.

Feel free to comment as much as you like. I'm open for anything :)
Click to expand...

Get a Mark V. When I was shopping for my amp last year I was trying to decide between a 2010 dual rec, a Road King and a Mark V, and the midrange crunch of the Mark V was the exact reason why I chose it over the other two. And as a JVM owner, I agree with everything you said about it. IMO you'll never get the same midrange crunch and tightness out of a rectifier (no matter what pedals you use with it) that you can get from a mark right out of the box, so why even go to all that effort? Rectifiers, in my experience, are much more "thumpy" and "wall of gain" sounding, while marks are more crunchy and quick.

Seriously, the Mark V sounds perfect for you. You won't be disappointed :D
 
rocknroll9225 - in your opinion how would you compare the jvm and MK V?

I love the fluid feel of the JVM for solos but it kind of ends there, wondered if the V has that 'feel'? Something I don't get with my Rectifier.

Apologies for hijacking !
 
Ok folks, first thanks for all the answers so far.

What I did today was to play the amp mostly over the Boogie 2x12 and to try a Boost in front, actually the Boss OD-3 (borrowed it from my music shop).

- the Boogie 2x12 sounds better than my H&K (no surprise) when also run with only 2 speakers (I get more volume and a little more bass when all 4 speakers are running). However, the difference isn't so great after all, but it's there. During testing I realized that my speaker cable wasn't working (I killed it yesterday when accidentally lifting the head from the cab without unplugging, silly me). But I have the feeling the cable might have been damaged already, after taking a look inside). I'm not sure about this, but I keep it in mind that this could have been part of the problem.

- the overdrive, phew! I set volume to 3:00, gain to 9:00, tone to 1:00 (gain on the amp was 9:00 or 10:00), and suddenly this thing shines :mrgreen: the bass is tighter, and palm-muting on the low strings is much more aggressive, with more attack like I want it. I kind of stayed away from overdrives so far because I don't want to tap dance when changing to clean, but I might think twice now. There was a faint metallic-like, unpleasant tone when playing with the overdrive somewhere in the highs, but I didn't bother to play much with the EQ. I'm sure another boost pedal or slight EQ adjustments will take care of that. After all, the Boss isn't probably the best pedal for this in the world.

So, I'm much more happier than I was yesterday. I will keep the amp and see which way to go. There still is the option to have it modded, but apart from that, I'm pretty sure I will find a way to change the sound more to the way I like it, with changing cabinets, boosting or whatever.

Feel free to keep this discussion going. I will contribute when there are news.

Thanks again.
 
Get the Ibanez TS9, will give you a slight mid boost but doesnt color the amp to much.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ibanez-ts9-tube-screamer-effects-pedal/150284000000000?src=3WWRWXGB&ZYXSEM=0

When I use my TS9, here are my settings.
Drive off
Tone 4th bar (11 oclock)
Level 3/4 to full depending on volume of the amp.

The maxon OD808 is **** close to the TS9 however it is more transparent as in there is no slight mid boost.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/maxon-od808-overdrive

My settings for this pedal are the same, they are just marked different on the pedal
Overdrive Off
Tone 11 oclock
Balance 3/4 to full depending on volume of amp

UnderJollyRoger said:
Ok folks, first thanks for all the answers so far.

What I did today was to play the amp mostly over the Boogie 2x12 and to try a Boost in front, actually the Boss OD-3 (borrowed it from my music shop).

- the Boogie 2x12 sounds better than my H&K (no surprise) when also run with only 2 speakers (I get more volume and a little more bass when all 4 speakers are running). However, the difference isn't so great after all, but it's there. During testing I realized that my speaker cable wasn't working (I killed it yesterday when accidentally lifting the head from the cab without unplugging, silly me). But I have the feeling the cable might have been damaged already, after taking a look inside). I'm not sure about this, but I keep it in mind that this could have been part of the problem.

- the overdrive, phew! I set volume to 3:00, gain to 9:00, tone to 1:00 (gain on the amp was 9:00 or 10:00), and suddenly this thing shines :mrgreen: the bass is tighter, and palm-muting on the low strings is much more aggressive, with more attack like I want it. I kind of stayed away from overdrives so far because I don't want to tap dance when changing to clean, but I might think twice now. There was a faint metallic-like, unpleasant tone when playing with the overdrive somewhere in the highs, but I didn't bother to play much with the EQ. I'm sure another boost pedal or slight EQ adjustments will take care of that. After all, the Boss isn't probably the best pedal for this in the world.

So, I'm much more happier than I was yesterday. I will keep the amp and see which way to go. There still is the option to have it modded, but apart from that, I'm pretty sure I will find a way to change the sound more to the way I like it, with changing cabinets, boosting or whatever.

Feel free to keep this discussion going. I will contribute when there are news.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
 
UnderJollyRoger said:
Ok folks, first thanks for all the answers so far.

What I did today was to play the amp mostly over the Boogie 2x12 and to try a Boost in front, actually the Boss OD-3 (borrowed it from my music shop).

- the Boogie 2x12 sounds better than my H&K (no surprise) when also run with only 2 speakers (I get more volume and a little more bass when all 4 speakers are running). However, the difference isn't so great after all, but it's there. During testing I realized that my speaker cable wasn't working (I killed it yesterday when accidentally lifting the head from the cab without unplugging, silly me). But I have the feeling the cable might have been damaged already, after taking a look inside). I'm not sure about this, but I keep it in mind that this could have been part of the problem.

- the overdrive, phew! I set volume to 3:00, gain to 9:00, tone to 1:00 (gain on the amp was 9:00 or 10:00), and suddenly this thing shines :mrgreen: the bass is tighter, and palm-muting on the low strings is much more aggressive, with more attack like I want it. I kind of stayed away from overdrives so far because I don't want to tap dance when changing to clean, but I might think twice now. There was a faint metallic-like, unpleasant tone when playing with the overdrive somewhere in the highs, but I didn't bother to play much with the EQ. I'm sure another boost pedal or slight EQ adjustments will take care of that. After all, the Boss isn't probably the best pedal for this in the world.

So, I'm much more happier than I was yesterday. I will keep the amp and see which way to go. There still is the option to have it modded, but apart from that, I'm pretty sure I will find a way to change the sound more to the way I like it, with changing cabinets, boosting or whatever.

Feel free to keep this discussion going. I will contribute when there are news.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Fix or replace that cable before you fry your amp :)

I figured my 2ch DR does not need pedals, there's enough gain already! But I was left frustrated during solos. And if Satch is attached to his OD1 and Malmsteen to his DOD, why shouldn't I give it a go?

Well what do you know - bye bye frustration and hello thicker lead tone, more sustain and more compatible with what I'm use to: Triaxis, Quad, C++, Subway. Granted, for a different style maybe using zero pedals is an option but I'm use to Boogie lead on tap so I'm a pedal convert now.

In hindsight this should not be a great surprise, the DR's gain stage is more like a Marshall, which can often benefit from OD pedals - than a classic Boogie, which can benefit from EQ.

Anyway if the OD pedal doesn't float your boat - seriously consider an EQ in the FX loop. I would go analog, like the Boss or MXR ones - because you won't have to futz about trying to avoid digital distortion.

The dynamic range (lowest volume compared to highest volume) of the DR pre-amp is huge, whereas the dynamic range of most digital devices is far more narrow, IOW, you'll get digital distortion, the dreaded red light of horrible noise. That said, I can squeeze a Nanoverb into the FX loop and still have everything balanced and pretty well the way I like it. ....

The DR definitely can benefit from "the right" cab as well. I have a Recto 4x12 slant - it works very well - but it's heavy to cart about. I hate the DR through regular Marshall cabs but into a Vintage Marshall with V30's, especially straight not slanted - it works very well IMHO and those cabs aren't that big.

Definitely give all this a go before turfing that amp.

Cheers.
 
UnderJollyRoger said:
So, what I'm probably looking for are answers to the following questions:

- is there a way to push the DR in the mentioned region of a more aggressive, crunchier midrange (remember, lots of fast palm muting going on) ? Raising Treble and/or Presence isn't really working.
Click to expand...

Turn up the mids and presence. Definitely don't overlook the mids for that punchy aggressive urgent sort of crunch. Keep in mind that Rectos are very scooped by nature so you can dime the mids and still have a huge sound. They're kind of the opposite of the Mark series amps that way. You can then dial back the Treble to deal with any ice pick.

Pickups: Bare Knuckle 'Rebel Yell' pickups are very aggressive, articulate, and crunchy sound pickups. They will really bring that upper mid bite back into your tone. Great for that aggressive 'edge of metal' rock tone. This is basically the same tone as I dial in to my recto.

Maxon OD808 boost. I don't boost my amps but many guys do. This might be your ticket.

- is there a way to tighten the Bass ? As mentioned above, it isn't really untight, but just a little more would be great ...
Click to expand...

Dial back the bass.

Boost the amp.

If you want to try cabs, I built a copy of a Mills Acoustic Mach212B a couple of summers ago. A ported interior baffle definitely cuts resonance frequencies which makes for a much tighter bass response. http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48578

- is there a way to make this baby sound better at lower volumes ? To me, there really is point when you raise the channel volume to ... probably 10:00 or 10:30 (loop bypassed so no master volume for this test) when you feel and hear the amp come alive, but that's ... loud and I want to practice without earplugs if possible. BTW, is the comes-alive-with-a-certain-volume-level-thing an amp problem or a speaker problem ? Anybody ever tried this ?
Click to expand...

It is most definitely mostly a speaker problem. Probably 75% of the problem is speaker related. I find that 2 x 12 I built sounds great at many volumes but I have to get it up to about 85db for the amp to really come alive. That being said, switching the variac to 'spongy' and pulling a pair of power tubes can give you more of that driving amp tone at marginally lower volumes.

Do be aware, I tried the Mini Recto today and even THAT thing was LOUD. I don't know that a quiet guitar amp exists... For low volume playing, Mesa amps are right up there with the best.

I'm playing the amp over a Hughes & Kettner oversized 4x12 at the moment. Probably not bad, but I wouldn't mind buying a new one when it would help ... Guitar is a custom build, PRS/LP ******* with EMG's. Both shouldn't be too shabby, so I wouldn't search the problem here first.
Click to expand...

EMGs are cool and pretty tight. I prefer how huge and detailed the Bare Knuckle passives can be though. For instance, the Nailbombs and Rebel Yells have a lot of soul. If you want that detailed crunch, you'll want some of these boutique gems instead. An oversized 4 x 12 is going to emphasize lows and highs. If you want more mids, try a traditional sized 4 x 12. For instance, a Marshall 1960vintage (vintage 30s) will give you a tighter and more mid focused sound for sure. The Mesa Stiletto 4 x 12 is the best of the bunch but they are prohibitively expensive over in europe.

I wouldn't mind, for example:

- putting EL34's in it.
Click to expand...

Gives great crunch but it yields more of a rock tone. You also lose quality in the cleans.

- probably send it to an amp modder. Seems to be a common thing, anyway ...
Click to expand...
Ask Fluff about this one. He had a FJA modded 3 channel dual and he settled back with a good ol Rev G 2 channel.

- buy another cabinet. My bandmate has a Single Rectifier and (among others), a 2x12 Rectifer cabinet, so I can at least test that without problems.
Click to expand...

Maybe not a bad idea. Standard sized 4 x 12s will be best for a much more mid focused tone. As I stated earlier, the Stiletto 4 x 12 is my top recommendation in this arena but the Marshall 1960vintage is an appropriate substitution. Also, 2 x 12 cabs are another option. They are great for home use and lower volume situations. I find 1 x 12s sound too thin so a 2 x 12 is a nice compromise.

The only thing I wouldn't really like is to put a tubescreamer in front, I like my distortion from the amp only if possible.
Click to expand...

Really? Check out this video first... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgGnWufCjso

So, in conclusion, I like the amp and don't want to sell it, but it probably needs a little finetuning for me, if possible. As I have a rather high opinion of this board, I'd like you all to help me, if you can.

Feel free to comment as much as you like. I'm open for anything :)
Click to expand...

I agree. Rectos are fussy amps but when you get your setup right, they simply TEAR!!!
 
Thanks again, I have a lot to do now :)

I think I probably take a look into the Stiletto 2x12 cab for starters. It's not that expensive, and from what I've read here, it should push my sound a little more in the wanted direction, plus I can compare it directly with my buddys 2x12 Recto.
 
Turn up the mids and presence. Definitely don't overlook the mids for that punchy aggressive urgent sort of crunch. Keep in mind that Rectos are very scooped by nature so you can dime the mids and still have a huge sound. They're kind of the opposite of the Mark series amps that way
Click to expand...

I really agree that the mids on Mark series is completely different. However I crank them on the Mark and keep em low on the rectifier. On the rectifier 9 o'clock is flat, on the Mark V the mid adds more saturation, and I tend to run them fairly high (well past noon) on high gain channels. I guess YMMV.
 
IMO it's hard to compare the midrange controls between the Marks and Rectos, the amps are voiced differently in the mids. I do agree however that turning up the mids in either amp is essential to good tone through the preamp.

Dom
 
domct203 said:
IMO it's hard to compare the midrange controls between the Marks and Rectos, the amps are voiced differently in the mids. I do agree however that turning up the mids in either amp is essential to good tone through the preamp.

Dom
Click to expand...

Ya, I wasn't meaning to compare the mid controls at all. Mark series amps have the G-EQ as well as the tone stack so the interface is drastically different from a Recto. What I meant was that a smilie face EQ on a Mark V still gives lots of mids, even compared to a Recto with the EQ set flat.

For another example, my Electra Dyne sounds less scooped with the mids at 10:00 than the recto does with the mids at 2:00. Trying to turn up the presence and treble will not give more punch and aggression to the tone. Dialing the mids up does.
 
YellowJacket said:
You'd rather a 2 x 12 instead of a 4 x 12? This I completely understand ;)
Click to expand...

I'm not totally against a 4x12, but until I find my sound, it's probably easier & cheaper to get the 2x12 instead of spending more money on the 4x12 Stiletto. Plus, it's always nice to have a smaller cabinet available and as I already mentioned, I can compare it directly with the 2x12 Rectifier Cab. Hell, I even could get both and build myself a more transportable 4x12 out of both :)

On the other hand, I talked with our Bass Player the other day about probably making some Cover Rock or whatever in a 2nd Band. For that sound, I have a little GAS for the Royal Atlantic to be true :)
I was playing Marshalls YJM Signatue the other day, and that thing absolutely kills (ever wondered how a boosted-to-hell, power amp distortion plexi sounds at reasonable practice room level ? go check it out), but sadly, it has no real clean channel ... while the royal Atlantic has 2 true channels and also a power soak ... anyway, depending on what will happen to that idea, a 2x12 Stiletto cab might be the better alternative than the Recto anyway if I can use it for both.
 
OH man, still trying to 'find' your tone!? Is there the option to go to a music store and test drive some gear? Definitely don't blow too much money trying to search for tone. Guitar tone is such an expensive endeavor!
 
I wouldn't say finding, more like finetuning :)

Anyway, yes, the local music store isn't too big, but the owner is very helpful and experienced. He has at least a Marshall 1960 cab which I could try.

I have a few more bigger music stores in the nearer distance which I can visit. Maybe this weekend, if I find the time.


Little correction, btw.: The overdrive I tested was the Boss SD-1, not the OD-3.
 
Yuck! Even 'fine tuning' is terrible. So much hit and miss! The Marshall 4 x 12 I suggest trying is the 1960vintage (Vintage 30s), not the 1960leada(G12T 75s) or 1960ax(greenbacks). They're all good cabs but the v30s will most likely have that sweet mid boost / aggression you like so much!
 

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