would I notice much difference putting a tung sol in V1 ?

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cheameup

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I have the euro tubes fav front end at the moment .all jj's

amp sounds great . no problems with it. I didnt notice much differnce when I replace the stock tubes . mayeb a little more headroom on the clean and a little more bite in ch3 modern but nothing life changing . nice tubes and glad I tired it

a local shop has a few tug sol 12ax7's in stock. see if often mentioned as being great for v1 in a DR . If I drop the $20 on it what can i expect it in v1 ? much of a difference or just tiny changes like the euro tubes set ?
 
cheameup said:
I have the euro tubes fav front end at the moment .all jj's

amp sounds great . no problems with it. I didnt notice much differnce when I replace the stock tubes . mayeb a little more headroom on the clean and a little more bite in ch3 modern but nothing life changing . nice tubes and glad I tired it

Considering the stock tubes are JJs I'm not really surprised you didn't notice much of a difference.

a local shop has a few tug sol 12ax7's in stock. see if often mentioned as being great for v1 in a DR . If I drop the $20 on it what can i expect it in v1 ? much of a difference or just tiny changes like the euro tubes set ?

In my Roadster it was a surprisingly big difference. Considering I only replaced one preamp tube I expected a small boost to clarity (I find JJs to be dull/muddy sounding), but it was a surprisingly big boost to the overall cut/clarity while boosting it's aggression.
 
You should notice quite a difference switching a Tung-Sol for a JJ in V1.

Oh yea, if your stock tubes are Mesa "Russian" then you swapped JJ's with JJ's. (Bob or Eddie @ Eurotubes didn't even mention it, huh?)

Dom
 
Tung-Sol FTW! I love those in V1!

So far they've made a huge improvement to any amp I've put them in. They're definitely one of my favorite tubes. Pick up some EH Goldpins and Sovtek LPS if you get a chance too. The mix of those 3 tubes is pure awesomeness. \m/
 
Neptical said:
Tung-Sol FTW! I love those in V1!

So far they've made a huge improvement to any amp I've put them in. They're definitely one of my favorite tubes. Pick up some EH Goldpins and Sovtek LPS if you get a chance too. The mix of those 3 tubes is pure awesomeness. \m/
+1. Just be sure to keep those tubes out of the cathode follower positions ( V3 & V4 in the Dual Rectifier). The Sovtek LPS makes a great PI.

Dom
 
cool next time I'm driving by I'll pick one up and give it a go

i knew i was replacing jj's for jj's when I made the swap

I figured at the time that his tuned kit ,with different jj specs for each tube, would make make more of a difference over the stock tubes. again it did make a difference but nothing drastic or life changing
 
The slight difference you are hearing is due to the ECC803 used in V1. That is the only tube that is any different from your stock tubes, with the exception of the gain rating of the one for V3, but even with that it's probably hardly noticable in that position (I don't buy that gold-pin snake oil stuff for the V2 tube).

I think you'll immediatly notice the difference the Tung-Sol will make in V1. IMO, V3 (tone stack) is a better location for the ECC803 longplate.

YMMV

Dom
 
domct203 said:
The slight difference you are hearing is due to the ECC803 used in V1. That is the only tube that is any different from your stock tubes, with the exception of the gain rating of the one for V3, but even with that it's probably hardly noticable in that position (I don't buy that gold-pin snake oil stuff for the V2 tube).

I think you'll immediatly notice the difference the Tung-Sol will make in V1. IMO, V3 (tone stack) is a better location for the ECC803 longplate.

YMMV

Dom


so you'd recommend putting the sol in v1 and moving the current v1 to v3? gonna grab the tube tomorrow when I'm running around so I'll get to give it a run a stage volume in the studio sunday
 
Does anyone know the difference between Tung-Sol 12AX7 / ECC803-S Gold and Tung-Sol 12AX7?
I am about to retube my roadster. Should I go for only V1 and V6 swap and leave other stock or replace all of them with other brands (leaving out the Mesas)?
Thanx.
 
Bisconne said:
Does anyone know the difference between Tung-Sol 12AX7 / ECC803-S Gold and Tung-Sol 12AX7?
I am about to retube my roadster. Should I go for only V1 and V6 swap and leave other stock or replace all of them with other brands (leaving out the Mesas)?
Thanx.

12AX7 is the American designation. ECC83 is the UK designation. I forget what the 803 thing means, but it's basically just an ECC83.

Gold plated pins aren't worth the extra coin. The contacts inside the tube sockets aren't gold plated, and tubes don't typically have issues with corrosion that would require a gold plating to protect it from. The only reason they use it is because it costs them pennies to apply and gives them dollars in returns as people assume they must be better.
 
+1

As far as I can tell the Tung-Sol ECC803 is just an overpriced 12AX7 with (unnecessary) gold plated pins. It looks like they are trying to hype-up low noise and high quality, in other words, charging more for something you should be getting with their regular 12AX7 IMO.

Why do you feel it's time to re-tube your preamp?

Dom
 
Thanks guys for the info.
Well, I bought the Roadster couple of days ago and the guy who sold it to me didn't change the tubes since he bought it.
But, as I read on the forum, that if you swap V1 and V6 you get the best out of Roadster, so I wanna give it a try.
The question in this case was..., regarding other tubes in position (V2, V3,...) should I leave/buy stock Mesa or tubes from other brands (Tung Sol, Mullard,...)?
I also have tone suck/drop when engaging FX loop, so I figure, retubing it.

BTW, a bit offtopic, lag when switching between channels remains even though I have Reverb on... (I post the Q in the sticky, but no answer yet... :( , sorry)

Tnx...
 
Bisconne said:
Thanks guys for the info.
Well, I bought the Roadster couple of days ago and the guy who sold it to me didn't change the tubes since he bought it.
But, as I read on the forum, that if you swap V1 and V6 you get the best out of Roadster, so I wanna give it a try.
The question in this case was..., regarding other tubes in position (V2, V3,...) should I leave/buy stock Mesa or tubes from other brands (Tung Sol, Mullard,...)?

I only changed the V1 and I'm really happy with the results. I was initially planning on replacing more, but I like the sound enough that I don't really feel like taking it any further.

I also have tone suck/drop when engaging FX loop, so I figure, retubing it.

There will be a tone change when you engage the loop as the signals going through more circuitry, but the loop on the Roadster is pretty good. If you're getting an excessive amount of tone suck it's likely from whatever effects you're running in the loop, or you could be confusing the volume drop from the insertion of the master output as a "tone suck".

BTW, a bit offtopic, lag when switching between channels remains even though I have Reverb on... (I post the Q in the sticky, but no answer yet... :( , sorry)

The reverb has a built in switching dropout. They did it on purpose so that you don't have big jumps in the reverb volume when switching channels.
 
domct203 said:
Neptical said:
Tung-Sol FTW! I love those in V1!

So far they've made a huge improvement to any amp I've put them in. They're definitely one of my favorite tubes. Pick up some EH Goldpins and Sovtek LPS if you get a chance too. The mix of those 3 tubes is pure awesomeness. \m/
+1. Just be sure to keep those tubes out of the cathode follower positions ( V3 & V4 in the Dual Rectifier). The Sovtek LPS makes a great PI.

Dom

What tubes do you suggest for the cathode followers? I currently have a Tungsol, mullard,EH goldpin, jj ec803, and sovtek lps in that order. Should I change V3 and V4 to something else?
 
What's the difference between a tung-sol 12ax7 and a standard mesa one? I understand that they change tone, but what's the reason for it?
 
Alot of things influence a tubes performance in a given circuit, how they are made, the materials used, as well as their operating specs. Even tubes of the same type / brand will have different tonal qualities.

Depending on how sensitive the circuit is sometimes the differences are quite noticeable. When I started rolling NOS tubes I tried three different RFT 12AX7 (ECC83) in my amp and one of them was just sweeter in the mids for some reason, while the other 2 sounded pretty much the same.

My bandmates think I'm nuts LOL.

Dom
 
kick6 said:
What's the difference between a tung-sol 12ax7 and a standard mesa one? I understand that they change tone, but what's the reason for it?

Like Dom said... it's all in how they're made.

Typically, I find JJ ECC83s (what Mesa is currently using for stock tubes) is darker and lower in gain than most other tubes. Some like them because they're smoother and they don't emphasize the treble frequencies... thus cutting down on high gain fizz. Me personally, I find they sound like there's a blanket over my cab and it feels like I'm playing a piece of wet cardboard.

Tung-Sols are typically brighter and produce more gain. They have a lot more detail and harmonics compared to JJs. I could explain it all day, but you'll understand with so much more clarity once you try it for yourself. The trade off is that the brighter/more harmonics can lead to more harshness and fizz.... however I consider it a worthwhile trade.

I'm currently running just a single Tung-Sol in the V1 with the remainder being JJ. I really like the result. The V1 is the most important tube tonally as it has the most influence on the sound your amp produces. I think in this case the Tung-Sol is creating a defined tone right off the hop, and the JJs are smoothing it out as it moves through each subsequent gain stage. Normally I have a pretty big bias against JJs (not a fan), but in this case I'm really happy with the results.
 
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