New Roadster Head Owner Needs Multi-FX Help!

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marcg71

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Hey all
I've read some great info here but need some additional help/handholding. I've been reading all kinds of stuff about the fx loop being engaged disengaged, etc. For those of you who use a processor with the Roadster, what I'd like to know, is what have you been successful using?

I'm also new to multi-fx processors I might add, I'm an old school player (analog pedals in the loop experience) trying to get acclimated with newer equipment, at his point am really confused!

I'd like to use a rack processor (need suggestions on what works well with the roadster) in the loop and be able to shut if off either by shutting the processor off(like a fx pedal ran thru the loop) or using the roadster footpedal fx on/off without massive degradation in sound OR volume.

Your help is GREATLY APPRECIATED! :mrgreen:
 
Hi marc. Just grab yourself a used TC Electronics G-Major off e-bay [$250-300] and plug it in and see if you like it. There's so much to a multi-fx rack system working with a midi pedal, channel switching, looping, etc. It's hard to know where to start. You may also try advertising on your local Craigslist for a guitar tech to tutor you on this stuff for an hour or so. There are many good ones in the cities and they know their chit. In my own situation I felt a rack rig was just too much overkill and so I sold all the rack gear and put together a little pedal package running a chorus and reverb thru the loop and a compressor and a BB and a tuner out front. That made me happy. I came to the conclusion that if you go rack, you need to go all out with a switcher and a controller, but each player needs to decide what they need. Good luck.
 
The simplest and most important obstacle you'll run into is the digital processors vs. parallel loop issue. Digital effects in a parallel loop that doesn't allow for 100% wet signal experience a processing lag that, although small, is enough to produce a very loud, very nasty phase noise that can make using them at all in that location impossible. The amount and type of the noise produced can vary from unit to unit, but usually comes out as a blaring, high-pitched sinewave, kind of like a cheap keyboard with one of the keys held down. At the very least, you'll want to set the loop mix on the amp's back panel at the full 90% to minimize this problem.

If you are lucky and that is not an issue for you, you may still face a secondary issue of the problem that occurs when you take an analog signal, convert it to digital via the use of a digital effects processor, then convert that signal back to analog at the output of the effects unit. So far, this much processing is unavoidable if you are going to use a digital effects unit. However, the problem begins to occur when you then try to take that reconstituted analog signal and run it through yet more effects. Each time the signal is converted from analog to digital, or from digital to analog, there is a small accumulation of digital artifacts in the sound, as well as a degradation of the original signal.

If you take the output of a digital signal processor, then run it into yet another digital effect of any kind, you are multiplying the number of times the original signal gets converted, and likewise multiplying the amount of digital artifact noise and degradation of the original signal. You will soon find the sound unlistenable for all the tone loss and extra noise it now carries. That's why, as a rule, you want to place digital processors last in the effects chain (and never in front of the amp), and you'll only want to use one digital processor in the chain.

For example, as a general rule, you would not want to place a digital effect of any kind between the guitar and a high-quality tube amp if you are going to be using the amp's distortion. This is because your guitar's signal will have already experienced some tone loss and the addition of some digital noise artifacts even before it receives its primary tone and overdrive from your amp's preamp. The sound may be thin and the artifacts will be multiplied, distorted and amplified even further by your amp. If you are going to be using a digital effect unit with your tube amp, put it in the effects loop where most of the tone shaping has already occurred and where artifacts have the least chance of affecting your sound.

You also wouldn't want to put two digital effects processors in your effects loop chain, such as a multi-effects unit followed by a digital reverb. If you do, the analog signal from your guitar and preamp will be digitized, converted back to analog at the output of the first effects unit, digitized again at the input of the digital reverb, then converted yet again to analog at the output of the reverb, all before it ever hits your power amp section. The results will be a tone that has characteristics of a great tube amp, but which sounds ultimately amateurish, digital and weak. Certainly not the way you want to sound if you've spent so much money on not only a great tube amp, but also on the effects themselves.

This digitizing problem is why a lot of pro guitarists still prefer to use boutique analog effects over digital signal processors, even though the digital units have come a phenomenally long way in the last several years from where they started. The analog effects, combined with the analog warmth of a real tube amp, just sound better, generally, and have a realism to the tone that digital units just have not yet been able to truly capture.
 
Chris McKinley said:
The simplest and most important obstacle you'll run into is the digital processors vs. parallel loop issue. Digital effects in a parallel loop that doesn't allow for 100% wet signal experience a processing lag that, although small, is enough to produce a very loud, very nasty phase noise that can make using them at all in that location impossible. The amount and type of the noise produced can vary from unit to unit, but usually comes out as a blaring, high-pitched sinewave, kind of like a cheap keyboard with one of the keys held down. At the very least, you'll want to set the loop mix on the amp's back panel at the full 90% to minimize this problem.

If you are lucky and that is not an issue for you, you may still face a secondary issue of the problem that occurs when you take an analog signal, convert it to digital via the use of a digital effects processor, then convert that signal back to analog at the output of the effects unit. So far, this much processing is unavoidable if you are going to use a digital effects unit. However, the problem begins to occur when you then try to take that reconstituted analog signal and run it through yet more effects. Each time the signal is converted from analog to digital, or from digital to analog, there is a small accumulation of digital artifacts in the sound, as well as a degradation of the original signal.

If you take the output of a digital signal processor, then run it into yet another digital effect of any kind, you are multiplying the number of times the original signal gets converted, and likewise multiplying the amount of digital artifact noise and degradation of the original signal. You will soon find the sound unlistenable for all the tone loss and extra noise it now carries. That's why, as a rule, you want to place digital processors last in the effects chain (and never in front of the amp), and you'll only want to use one digital processor in the chain.

For example, as a general rule, you would not want to place a digital effect of any kind between the guitar and a high-quality tube amp if you are going to be using the amp's distortion. This is because your guitar's signal will have already experienced some tone loss and the addition of some digital noise artifacts even before it receives its primary tone and overdrive from your amp's preamp. The sound may be thin and the artifacts will be multiplied, distorted and amplified even further by your amp. If you are going to be using a digital effect unit with your tube amp, put it in the effects loop where most of the tone shaping has already occurred and where artifacts have the least chance of affecting your sound.

You also wouldn't want to put two digital effects processors in your effects loop chain, such as a multi-effects unit followed by a digital reverb. If you do, the analog signal from your guitar and preamp will be digitized, converted back to analog at the output of the first effects unit, digitized again at the input of the digital reverb, then converted yet again to analog at the output of the reverb, all before it ever hits your power amp section. The results will be a tone that has characteristics of a great tube amp, but which sounds ultimately amateurish, digital and weak. Certainly not the way you want to sound if you've spent so much money on not only a great tube amp, but also on the effects themselves.

This digitizing problem is why a lot of pro guitarists still prefer to use boutique analog effects over digital signal processors, even though the digital units have come a phenomenally long way in the last several years from where they started. The analog effects, combined with the analog warmth of a real tube amp, just sound better, generally, and have a realism to the tone that digital units just have not yet been able to truly capture.
The roadster is a series loop!
 
Ah yes, brain fart. Thanks for pointing that out. I had it in my head that he was asking about a Dual Rec for some reason. That's what happens when you're answering too many posts at length in one day.

In the immortal words of Roseanne Roseannadanna, at least with regard to the first part of my post, "Nevermind!" :oops: :mrgreen:
 

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