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Vogelsong

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Im using a mark V with my worship team at church. I use strictly 90watts through a 2x12 rec. cab.

I use my amp as my monitor as it sits right behind me, and then it's mic'd to the board.

The problem is the sound guys always want me turned down, but even standing in front of it I can barely hear it. Even when Im playing leads and solo's they want me down.

The other problem is the sounds guys, aren't musicians and the music admin. and I are both now wondering if they know what the terms lead guitar, and solo mean or what they are supposed to sound like. I know in this aspect you can't help me.

But today I was told to turn down which I did. They said I was too loud on an intro, but it was only me and an acoustic playing. So I turned down, and when the part of the song came up where I was to play a solo, everyone else ramped up and I got buried. Completely lost my guitar in the mix with my amp literally 2' behind me. The stage volume at that point just buried me.

This has been going on for months and its getting frustrating.
They're good people but at this frustration level Im beginning to lose interest.
 
tell them to turn down the mic! or just move the mic farther away from the speaker
 
The other night at practice they turned the mic off. And then complained because I was still to loud in there opinion. The problem was it was only me and an acoustic playing (the acoustic was DI).

It just seams like I can't win.
 
thats impossible! If youre right next to the amp and have it aimed at you and you still cant hear yourself and theyre way off at the control board then maybe they just dont like you and your hard rockin electric geetar! :lol: talk to them and ask whats going on because I bet theyre jerking your chain or being d-bags for fun
 
lerxst88 said:
thats impossible! If youre right next to the amp and have it aimed at you and you still cant hear yourself and theyre way off at the control board then maybe they just dont like you and your hard rockin electric geetar! :lol: talk to them and ask whats going on because I bet theyre jerking your chain or being d-bags for fun

Yea I thought of that but thats turning out to not be the case.

I have clip that I'll post where I play a intro with acoustic guy who is also the music admin. After I play the lead again after the first verse the sound guys give him a signal that Im too loud. And then he tells me to turn down, so I do.

Then later in the song it really gets going but Im so low you can't hear the solo Im playing, and with the stage volume I can barely hear myself.

Any way here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28v0ThS6mog
 
Maybe it's just the clip, but your acoustic guy is EQ'd horribly. He's buried in a ton of useless glassy presence with no mids. You are a bit too loud comparatively, but that's because the rest of the mix is so off. It sounds very much like they volume-matched the vocals to each other, but not to either of your instruments.
 
yes, you are too loud, and the vocals and other guitar are muffled. is your amp on the floor pointed at your legs? if so, tilt it so it's aimed at your head. you will adjust your volume then. plus remember, the sound waves from the amp have a wavelength that is several feet in front of you and your amp. if you move farther out in front of you amp while playing, you will notice what i am talking about.
 
Chris McKinley said:
Maybe it's just the clip, but your acoustic guy is EQ'd horribly. He's buried in a ton of useless glassy presence with no mids. You are a bit too loud comparatively, but that's because the rest of the mix is so off. It sounds very much like they volume-matched the vocals to each other, but not to either of your instruments.

The other thing too is there are 2 count them 2 keyboards in there, another acoustic, and an electric bass that as far as Im concerned you cant hear any of it. Now at the beginning its only me and the guy singing on acoutsic with the drum. But everyone comes in at 2:05 and it just sounds like mush. I can't pick anyone out except the drum.
 
Oh I almost forgot I overheard a conversation to but didn't get all of it.

What does it mean when the needles on the board are getting into the red?
 
Vogelsong said:
What does it mean when the needles on the board are getting into the red?

It means that there's too much signal somewhere in the equation. There are a few points in the signal path where this could be happening. If it's on the input, that means the trim is set too high on the input for that channel or the signal from the mic is too hot. Or they could just be overloading the whole board....pushing it too hard can make the mix sound crappy. Overdrive is awesome on guitar amps but on the PA....not so much.
 
Welcome to playing at a church. I've played in churches in Pa, Va, and Fl and the only one that was a good experience musicianship and sound wise was my brothers old church down in Boca. The others the sound people were volunteers that knew very little about sound and the musicians had trouble reading music and chord charts.

what kind of monitor system is your church using? Is the drummer behind plexiglass? It helps a lot to cut down on stage noise.
 
Turumbar82 said:
Welcome to playing at a church. I've played in churches in Pa, Va, and Fl and the only one that was a good experience musicianship and sound wise was my brothers old church down in Boca. The others the sound people were volunteers that knew very little about sound and the musicians had trouble reading music and chord charts.

what kind of monitor system is your church using? Is the drummer behind plexiglass? It helps a lot to cut down on stage noise.

The acutual kind of monitor system? Do you mean brand, or configuration? The monitors themselves are JBL floor units.

The drummer is behind plexiglass, he is not mic'd.
 
We had practice last night, I went to the 45 watts setting to have a little finer control over my volume which worked out real well, it's a nice compromise between the 90 and 10 watts.

However the problem still persists that as soon as the band goes up in volume during a louder part of a song, I just get buried in the mix. At least thats whats happening on stage and through the monitors, I have no idea what it sounds like in the mix.

If anyone is wondering here's my settings.
Messarig01.jpg


Messarig02.jpg
 
Well things went real well last week. Of course it helps that they moved me to a different channel on the board after they realized that my volume pot was scratchy and had a dead spot in it. :lol:

So everything was great on stage anyway, if things got too loud and I started to get buried I just hit the solo boost and all was good. I don't know how the mix was in the audience but judging by some of the feedback I got from the congregation I must have been coming through real well.

The horn player stands right in front of me. At the end of the day he puts his horn down, turns around to me and says, "you had an awesome day today". That made me feel good. It was truly the first day since I'd been playing with them that I was happy with everynote I played. Then I had 3 or 4 similarly positive comments from the congregation.

It's amazing what a good mix will do.
 
Have you tried playing with the cab turned around?

It'll sound a little different to you (not anything that will affect your playing), but you should still hear it fine in a room that size and it gives the guy running the PA way more control. The people in the front will love you for it too.
 
From your most recent posts (and the lack of any since then) it seems like you got things sorted out, but I just wanted to offer one more (probably obvious) piece of advice.

When you are playing intros or parts with just one or two instruments, try rolling off your guitar volume a bit, that way they don't turn you down or think you're too loud. When the full band kicks in and you need to come through the mix you can just bring your guitar volume knob back up to full volume.
 
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