Tricks mixing guitar. Give me some ideas

I work with another musician who told me about a trick he uses mixing guitar. According to him this is a well known trick, but I had never heard of it. I tried it tonight and was floored by the results.

I usually record multiple times when recording a rythm track.

But my buddy told me he will record a single guitar track. Assign it to two seperate tracks, panned hard left and hard right.

Then he goes ahead and will offset the time of one of the tracks. He didn't say by how much but that it was measure in milliseconds.

I tried it tonight, taking a single guitar track, panning it left and right, then moving the start time of the right track by 15 milliseconds.

The results were outstanding.

Do any of you guys do this as well?

Is this a common technique that I just missed from living under a rock?

Anybody got some insight they would like to share on this technique or others I might benefit from?

Thanks

Yes, ive done this only when whoever I am recording cant play the track again lol. Ive gotten decent results by doing this, but actually playing the part over will always sound better than just copying and pasting the track and then moving it a few milliseconds. There is something about playing it more than once that really makes the guitar stand out, its the subtle ways that you play it different that make it sound good.

Good tip. Thanks

Yes, I think they did similar for some Van Halen albums, but they panned a delay with like 12ms which gave the perception of two guitars and fattened up his rhythum and it works wonders for leads.

anywhere under 50ms is the standard, so long as it sounds fine to you. strictly doubling the track by recording it will be fatter i think (and you can offset it by a little too) since you will get those little bits of different teqhniques in there. also the different amp / mic position can help out too since more "tones" are present.

i would suggest not panning hard left and right. But like 85-95%, it's still spread out alot, but there is alittle bit on the other side too.


recording guitars is an interesting thing, since there is no right and wrong. If i were you, i'd set up as many mics as you can, and you can always just use those for the offset

what sorta sound are you ultimately going for?
old 70's rock,
VH - 80's rock
80's metal
90s metal
metalcore
alternative
jazz
flamenco?

One thing to keep in mind, is the mono mix of your song. Chances are this won't be a huge deal, but if you are ever recording anything for radio use, you need to be mindful of it. If anything you record ever makes it to the radio, there is a chance the audience could be listening in mono (due to bad reception, weak stereo signal, whatever). Mono is derived by mashing the two stereo channels together, so if you have 2 guitar tracks that are identical panned hard left and right, but only separated by a few milliseconds, you're gunna get some pretty ugly *** phase issues when the mono signal is derived!

Like I said... probably not likely that your bedroom jams are gunna be on the radio, but if you get more serious, keep it in mind! This applies to everything you record... keep your phases in check!

I was messing around in Revalver last night, moving my guitar tracks (same exact track, just panned L/R) around a bit. Definitely gives darker/brighter tones....fattens up the sound or thinks it out.

Yeah, I used to do that before I discovered how much better true double tracking sounds. Copying and pasting a track like that normally makes it sound strange in one way or another, and double tracking just has a more organic sound and feel to it. But what your friend said saves a LOT of time.

Hmm,

Ran into some interesting results.

Depending on how long the delay was, certain chords would seem to "mesh" and lose the stereo effect.

It was like at 15ms the A chord would sound like someone just centered the track, at 20ms the A chord would sound great but now the G was having that issue. I am just using this as an example, I don't remember the time or the chords, but you get the picture.

I would like to go for the VH mix sound. Always sounded to me like it was just one guitar. Same with Black Sabath, though I could be wrong.

I come from the Devin Townsend school of Recording, meaning I rely on a Wall of Sound (and a wall of reverb).

I record 4-6 tracks, depending upon what it is and what it is mixed with in the song. I always do each track separately, no copy and paste.

I record 2 tracks, dry or with just a touch of reverb, one panned hard left, the other hard right. Then I add a third and fourth(also panned left and right) track with usually way too much reverb, then knock the levels around until it sits in with the dry track. I find that this gives the guitar sounds all the punch of the dry track, but with a thick tail of reverb that I love to hear.

For the Heavier stuff or more sparsely populate sections that focus on guitar, I will add a 5th and 6th track that is a simplified part of the main riff. So say I'm playing some sus2 chords with distortion or something, I'll add the 5th and 6th track playing just the simple power choord or root not to strengthen th background, and then reverb those to hell like the other track. I always make sure to cut out as much of the low end as possible from the 6th track so it won't turn the mix to mud.

I take a similar approach to clean tracking. I usually use 2 guitars for clean parts and do 4-6 tracks again, in a similar manner, except I do a warm track(neck pickup on electric) with a touch of verb, panned hard left and hard right. Then add 2 brighter tracks and sit them lower in the mix, and reverb the hell outta that with a darker sounding reverb. I very rarely add a 5th and 6th track, which is an acoustic guitar panned hard left and right, usually with just a hair of reverb.

Recording is all about trial and error most of the time. The best way to develop your own sound on a recording is to mess around with things and just test it out. It honestly never hurts to try, unless you're paying for the studio time. Good luck!

VH - one track of guitar (played awesome, no punching in) panned nearly all left. that guitar signal fed into the reverb room at sunset studios (a very famous room, set up for an awesome reverb, sole purpose) I think that is actually on both sides, but its mostly heard in the right (with very little dry guitar in it, varies by album)

and you'll need the smooth button, that Ted Templeman likes so much

I do metal so I quad track the rhythm guitars and do the copy and paste thing for solos.

Then I use a variable compressor for the guitars.

True double, or quad tracking is the way to go.....but dont let that stop you from also nudging these tracks a bit too. What I like to do sometimes is quad track. 2 left, 2 right. Pan one left 65% and one right 65%. Then another left 85% and another right 85%. The further panned tracks I usually shoot for a little brighter tone also. I dial in a slightly thicker, darker tone for the two "inners". Then....I take the outers and bump them both equally a few milliseconds in the same direction(maybe bump both left 10ms).

Bumping with exact copies works....but its more of an effect to my ears at least, cause I always here some phasing present to various degrees, and it doesnt sound as big. True double tracking wont present those phase issues when nudging tracks a few ms.....because no matter how tight you play, your never perfect, so the waveform isnt identical.

But when you do multitrack for real, and do a little panning ,and nudging.....the results are pretty nice.

Just simple stuff like panning the guitar tracks, and drums really give life to a mix....even if its just a mediocre recording. Play around with it and dont be afraid to bend the "rules" if it sounds good to your ear.

I use this technique only in long chords. On very rhytmic parts I've noticed one side a little off-tempo.