Tone Problem

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Nitemare297

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Hi Guys,
Ive had my triple rec for about a year now and I just started recording it about a couple of days ago. I have played live with it multiple times and it sounds fine then, but when I record it, it sounds awful (to me). I am recording it with a SM57 at a pretty high volume as well. I know that many people eq their amps different for recording and live but I was wondering what you guys think about how to fix my nasty tone. Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Pics:
http://s935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Nitemare297/?action=view&current=PIC_0095.jpg
http://s935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Nitemare297/?action=view&current=PIC_0096.jpg

Here is the Sound:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=970867

All recording done on Channel 2. Bold, Silicone Diode Rectification. Recorded with a Jackson DK2, Duncan JB in the bridge.

Thanks!!

(sorry for the random playing)
 
To start with, you need to describe a) what you think is wrong with the current tone, and b) what exact kind of tone you are wanting to achieve instead. Be as precise as possible and the information we can give will be more useful.
 
Thank you. :)

I feel that the current tone is too scratchy, thin and way too crunchy(bad crunchy, like a buzzsaw).

I would like the tone to be more smooth, thick, and fluid sounding. (I play Metal, by the way)

As an example of what im talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09rHDabBQfA

I know this tone cannot be completely replicated (he uses a 5150 I believe) I would like to come as close as possible.

I also have a Marshall cab in addition to my Orange, do you think I should mic both of them or could that muddy up the sound even more?

Thanks Guys!!
 
You can start by moving the microphone away from the center of the speaker cone. The further out you get, the smoother the sound. Plus, you get more low end. Also, a 57 isn't exactly what I would consider to be a smooth, fluid sounding mic. A Sennheiser 906 is going to be closer to that type of tone. If you have an additional mic, you might want to try using both of them in combination as well. I hope that helps.
 
Since you may not have access to other types of mics, and plenty of smooth-sounding guitars have been recorded on the SM-57, I'll address your amp settings. First, your presence is probably considerably too high if you're wanting a smooth sound. Try setting it between "off" and 10:00. Your treble might be just a tad high as well...dial it back to noon and see if that doesn't help take the edge off.

Also, you're talking about having a thin tone and wanting it to be fluid....you're going to have to dial the mids back in. As in, anywhere from noon to 3:00. Mids give the guitar its singing tone....if you scoop them out, your guitar will sound thin.

Next, bold and silicon diodes is almost the exact opposite setting of "smooth". That's how you'd set the amp if you wanted to sound anything but smooth. At the very least, you've got to use the tube rectifier. If you really want as much smoothness, fluidity, etc. as you can get, you'll also want to set it to Spongy rather than Bold. There's a volume decrease on spongy and tube, but you can always just adjust the volume.

You might also want to try angling the mic at about 45 degrees toward the center rather than straight on. You can move the mic slightly further out toward the speaker edge as well. Both of those should help mellow things out just a bit. Try micing both your cabs to see what you like.

Keep in mind the clip you linked isn't all that smooth really. The rhythm is a fairly standard high-gain scooped Marshall kinda sound. The lead has the mids back in, but is really also a fairly standard OD-boosted Marshall lead tone. Which leads me to mention, you may wish to try putting a good OD in front of the amp in addition to all the suggestions above. Set the output level to max, the gain at minimum, and the tone however you like. Doing so with the settings I recommended above will almost certainly get you about as close as a Triple Rec will get to that kind of tone.
 
The first thing you should try, as someone else suggested before me, is move the mic. Your clip doesn't sound bad at all, but it sounds exactly like a speaker mic'd in the center position.
As you will move the mic to the outer edge you will notice that it gets a lot smoother. My "go to" position for that type of sound is : mic about half the distance between the center and the edge, angled slightly towards the edge - imagine the angle of the speaker cone and place the mic perpendicular to the cone.
 
Thanks guys!!

I guess saying I wanted it to sound fluid and smooth was sort-of misleading. I want it to sound not choppy, but still with an edge.

Thanks!!

Ive also got a large diaphragm condenser mic I can experiment with.
 
Chris McKinley said:
Since you may not have access to other types of mics, and plenty of smooth-sounding guitars have been recorded on the SM-57, I'll address your amp settings. First, your presence is probably considerably too high if you're wanting a smooth sound. Try setting it between "off" and 10:00. Your treble might be just a tad high as well...dial it back to noon and see if that doesn't help take the edge off.

Also, you're talking about having a thin tone and wanting it to be fluid....you're going to have to dial the mids back in. As in, anywhere from noon to 3:00. Mids give the guitar its singing tone....if you scoop them out, your guitar will sound thin.

Next, bold and silicon diodes is almost the exact opposite setting of "smooth". That's how you'd set the amp if you wanted to sound anything but smooth. At the very least, you've got to use the tube rectifier. If you really want as much smoothness, fluidity, etc. as you can get, you'll also want to set it to Spongy rather than Bold. There's a volume decrease on spongy and tube, but you can always just adjust the volume.

You might also want to try angling the mic at about 45 degrees toward the center rather than straight on. You can move the mic slightly further out toward the speaker edge as well. Both of those should help mellow things out just a bit. Try micing both your cabs to see what you like.

Keep in mind the clip you linked isn't all that smooth really. The rhythm is a fairly standard high-gain scooped Marshall kinda sound. The lead has the mids back in, but is really also a fairly standard OD-boosted Marshall lead tone. Which leads me to mention, you may wish to try putting a good OD in front of the amp in addition to all the suggestions above. Set the output level to max, the gain at minimum, and the tone however you like. Doing so with the settings I recommended above will almost certainly get you about as close as a Triple Rec will get to that kind of tone.

He shouldn't have to resort to changing the settings on his amp. If you like the sound of the guitar amp in the room, then it's all about microphone placement. Once you find a spot that you like, you can make minor tweeks from there, but moving the mic should absolutely be the first thing you try.
 
He shouldn't have to resort to changing the settings on his amp. If you like the sound of the guitar amp in the room, then it's all about microphone placement. Once you find a spot that you like, you can make minor tweeks from there, but moving the mic should absolutely be the first thing you try.
I like it when I'm right up next to the amp and all the effects are recorded during a take and not added later. I also like a loud amp, but distortion should be kept to a minimum if you want a "big" sound. Mixing in a nice compensated direct sound can be the missing link and getting that sound to sound better is getting easier and easier.
 
I'm an amature, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

First, make sure you're not clipping the inputs anywhere in the recording path. Digital clipping is harsh and fizzy. Digital isn't like analog where there's benefits to recording as hot a signal as possible, the objective is to record as clean a signal as possible and adjust the final volume in DAW as necessary.

Second, get as good a sound as you can just using the mic. Google SM57 mic placements for ideas. Standard positions are on axis straight on the dust cap (bright with lots of attack) and slightly off access and angled towards the cone (mellower and thicker). You can't polish a turd, so don't waste your time trying to fix a crappy sound with post processing.

Third, once you have a sound you like double track your rhythm to thicken it up.

If you make it to this stage you'll start into post processing. I don't know if you're equipped for that and it's probably best to keep it simple for now.
 
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