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 Post subject: Crappy recording sound!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:05 pm 
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Mark I

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 37
Hi there,

I'm trying to record for my band using a Mesa Boogie Mark III, Ibanez S2170FW guitar with stock pups, Shure SM57 mic, an Alesis iO|2 recording interface and Cubase SX. I have the mic set up directly in front of the cone right in front of it, sometimes with a a inch clearance, but either way, I'm just getting a crap sound. What I usually do is turn the mic way down and have the amp cranking, so I can get that awesome tone, but when it's recorded it sounds like crap. Any ideas? Maybe the mic is turned down to low? If I turn it up it peaks at 0 dB, I'm not sure about recording distortion because I never tried recording it when it peaks...

Either way, thanks in advanced!

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'86 Mesa Boogie Mark III fully loaded combo w/ V30
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:19 pm 
hey,

the sm 57 should be ok?

place the mic a little off center the cone 10-15 cm from the speaker.
thats usually the first position to try.

then i would level the amp volume (for the sound you want) and after that you level the input gain at the alesis.

with this you should have a good basic tone. the shure can handle some loud db, thats what its made for.

br


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:20 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:17 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Tampa, FL
dean69 wrote:
the shure can handle some loud db, thats what its made for.

br


hell yes, i worked for a large sound company for a while and put tons of sm57's through hell and back and blasted 100w half stacks cranked into them without a single problem.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:55 pm 
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Mark I

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 37
Sounds good, I was worried, because it sounded like the volume was overpowering the mic? I'm not sure really.

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'86 Mesa Boogie Mark III fully loaded combo w/ V30
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:32 am 
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Mark IV
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Psyence88, where does your name come from?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:02 pm 
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Mark I

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:05 pm
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visualrocker69 wrote:
Psyence88, where does your name come from?


PSYENCE A GO GO :wink:

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'86 Mesa Boogie Mark III fully loaded combo w/ V30
'07 Ibanez S2170FW
'08 Ibanez JS1200CA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Mark IV
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Psyence88 wrote:
visualrocker69 wrote:
Psyence88, where does your name come from?


PSYENCE A GO GO :wink:


Not the 1996 hide tour? :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:54 am 
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Mark I

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 37
Haha yes I'm a big fan of hide and X-JAPAN in general.

I also listen to a lot of other J-Rock/Metal... Dir En Grey, Galneryus, Sex-Machineguns, Ra:IN, some of Toshi's solo stuff, Luna Sea, Sugizo's solo stuff, Versailles(Amazing newer band), The Brilliant Green... Etc... I'm quite a avid Japanese music fan haha.

Right now I'm actually trying to achieve a tone very similar to Sugizo's lead sound on songs like Gravity, I for you... etc... Any ideas? My gears listed in my sig haha.

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'86 Mesa Boogie Mark III fully loaded combo w/ V30
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'08 Ibanez JS1200CA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:33 pm 
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Mark IV
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Psyence88 wrote:
Haha yes I'm a big fan of hide and X-JAPAN in general.

I also listen to a lot of other J-Rock/Metal... Dir En Grey, Galneryus, Sex-Machineguns, Ra:IN, some of Toshi's solo stuff, Luna Sea, Sugizo's solo stuff, Versailles(Amazing newer band), The Brilliant Green... Etc... I'm quite a avid Japanese music fan haha.

Right now I'm actually trying to achieve a tone very similar to Sugizo's lead sound on songs like Gravity, I for you... etc... Any ideas? My gears listed in my sig haha.


Awesome! So there's three jrock fans on the Boogie Board now that I know of.

For Sugizo's sound, single coils are a must. You probably need something lower output than the Hot Rails to get his Gravity lead sound, since by that time he had switched away from EMG SA and Lace Sensors to Seymour Duncan Strat Antiquity passives.

Also, I'd ditch the Mark III and get a Custom Audio Electronics OD-100. Sugizo used those a lot... British/Marshall based sound, but with Mesa's smoothness and clarity. From what I've heard, its right in between Soldano and Bogner. At any rate, running EL34's in the Class A positions on your Mark III would be a good start probably...

As far as effects, his leads are VERY delay heavy... but you also might want to invest in a compressor to help with that liquid, sustainy feeling.

Speaking of Sugizo, Luna Sea's playing Tokyo Dome today! Yeyyy! I hope they make a DVD :? At least they got their 1996 Christmas live dvd coming out soon... and X is releasing their 1993 comeback live... Exciting time in jrock, ain't it? :wink:

Anyway, great to find another jrock fan who's also a Mesa fan and a serious guitarist :D

By the way, I'm into a lot of various jrock bands too... Luna Sea's my #1 favorite band from Japan though. #2 favorite in the world, actually, after Pink Floyd. hide's gotta be my #1 favorite solo artist... total visionary he was.

Other than that... Dead End, Dir en Grey (gauze era mostly, up through Kisou is good though....), hide, Kuroyume, L'arc~en~Ciel (mostly old stuff), Luna Sea, Malice Mizer, X, and Siam Shade... speaking of which, their guitarist Daita uses a Mark III just like you, haha 8)

I like other jrock too here and there, but those are the main ones.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:04 pm 
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just a wild guess.. maybe you're using a little too much gain? i've found with my iv that i have to turn the gain down a bit when recording to get the sound i want..

can you describe in a little more detail what the crappy sound is like, or maybe post a clip?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:27 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:17 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Tampa, FL
eltrain858 wrote:
just a wild guess.. maybe you're using a little too much gain? i've found with my iv that i have to turn the gain down a bit when recording to get the sound i want..

can you describe in a little more detail what the crappy sound is like, or maybe post a clip?


i couldve asked him to just post a clip also, but i guess either im not that smart or that would be too easy.

either way, POST A CLIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
Guitars:
Caparison Horus SE
Ibanez RG7620 7string
Ibanez RG3120
Ibanez RG450dx(modded for head crushing metal)

The Rest:
Mesa Triaxis
Mesa 2:90
G-Major
Genz-Benz G-Flex 2x12 cab
Peavey Valveking 2x12 100w combo
PODxtLive


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Mark I

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 37
Sure guys, I still got the recording here actually, I'll mix it down and post it a little later. Either way, I don't think it's a gain issue, it just sounds like I could break it in half, very brittle sounding (the lead lines.)

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'86 Mesa Boogie Mark III fully loaded combo w/ V30
'07 Ibanez S2170FW
'08 Ibanez JS1200CA


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:42 am 
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Mark III
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Psyence88 wrote:
Maybe the mic is turned down to low? If I turn it up it peaks at 0 dB, I'm not sure about recording distortion because I never tried recording it when it peaks...



this is just a general comment on recording to digital, not saying it's causing your guitar tone problem. you are tracking too hot if your peaks are hitting 0dB in digital. if you're in 24 bit mode, there is no reason to record this hot, you're only causing clipping. it's not like you're using "more" bits by recording hotter, and while slamming a signal to analog tape can have a nice musical distortion, most would agree that overloaded digital gear sounds like crap. it also makes it harder to mix if every track level has to be turned way down anyway to keep the overall mix from overloading.

shoot for the average, not peak, level to be around -16 dB (fwiw, -18dB in digital translates to 0dB in analog). i used to record (and still do sometimes) on tape and only recently learned to change my techniques to suit a different medium, but i found my recordings improved once i started tracking at the right levels for digital.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:40 pm 
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Mark III
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Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:18 am
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lyman wrote:
Psyence88 wrote:
Maybe the mic is turned down to low? If I turn it up it peaks at 0 dB, I'm not sure about recording distortion because I never tried recording it when it peaks...



this is just a general comment on recording to digital, not saying it's causing your guitar tone problem. you are tracking too hot if your peaks are hitting 0dB in digital. if you're in 24 bit mode, there is no reason to record this hot, you're only causing clipping. it's not like you're using "more" bits by recording hotter, and while slamming a signal to analog tape can have a nice musical distortion, most would agree that overloaded digital gear sounds like crap. it also makes it harder to mix if every track level has to be turned way down anyway to keep the overall mix from overloading.

shoot for the average, not peak, level to be around -16 dB (fwiw, -18dB in digital translates to 0dB in analog). i used to record (and still do sometimes) on tape and only recently learned to change my techniques to suit a different medium, but i found my recordings improved once i started tracking at the right levels for digital.




++++++


The man knows what he's talking about.

I'm not recording at 24 bit, and still keep my levels around -16/-18. It really shows a difference when the number of tracks add up, mixes better, and sounds fuller at the end result.


Good advice.


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