The Boogie Board

Discussion Forum for Mesa Boogie Products
It is currently Wed May 24, 2017 6:23 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:11 pm 
Offline
Mark III

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:22 am
Posts: 307
Got this idea when I was writing another post lol so sorry if it seems a little repeated. It always seems that when I look into buying a different amp of a certain manufacturer I seem to find out that the older on is better or there is a certain model thats better. This happens with pedals guitars and amps. So what gear other then the infamous block letter 5150 or Pre500 Dual rectos, Vintage tube screamers are out there that have a cerain flavor that the rest of those same amps in that product line by that same Manufacturer don't have? Why and why did those earlier versions have the "IT" factor? Is there any cuurent gear out there that have that extra special something that later models might not have? Or have we reached the pinnacle of our amp tones and possibilties. Because I am hoping that gear technology keeps moving foward
So share about gear that you have owned played or just know is great and holds some magic from a certain serial number or year or model


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:27 pm 
Offline
Dual Recto
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:38 pm
Posts: 2271
Location: Blistered Earth
Internet Mythology:
Mostly guitar gear hype is fabricated right here in the internet by people who philosophize more about amps than actually use them. When you have a million people trying to make you believe that the shade of color they see is the bestest and everyone else is wrong you get a lot of internet troll butt-hurts.

Purchase Validation:
Nobody wants to buy a $2000 amp only to come home and read on the interwebs that it's a turd and they should have waited for XYZ to be released next year or that the previous version was superior. Thus, when confronted with negative findings after a large purchase, people tend to be rather defensive and they figure if they rave about their product enough others will join.

Human Parrots:
"If you read it on the internet, it must be true" Some people think because they read someone's opinion or review of a piece of gear then they're entitled to repeat their findings as if they were their own. Just because George Lynch thinks a certain revision of an amp sounds good doesn't mean that everyone will think it sounds good. But, for some people, that's good enough to repeat as gospel and spend their kids' college funds on clunky old amps without ever hearing or playing it themselves.

I guess I've been getting a bit cynical of guitarist's behavior on this subject lately and I've taken a bit of liberty in poking fun at a few here lately. It's hard not to when you watch these trends year after year. When you see so many things that were the best thing ever one day become complete garbage the next you tend to value the community opinion less and less.

_________________
Mark V:25
Recto 2x12
ESP Explorer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:36 pm 
Offline
Dual Recto
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:38 pm
Posts: 2271
Location: Blistered Earth
In other words, don't worry. Today is the best day ever in respect to what is available to guitarists technology and quality wise. Tomorrow will be even better and so will each following day.
Granted, there are some great old amps and guitars out there that will be classics forever but the demigod-like status people try to spin on it is an assload of hype you should ignore it as such.
Go to stores and demo the gear you're interested in. Talk to people who actually OWN what you are looking into buying. Listen to demos and clips on the internet.

_________________
Mark V:25
Recto 2x12
ESP Explorer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:49 pm 
Offline
Mark III

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:22 am
Posts: 307
lol wow that was a little darker then I was going for awesome post tho I'm glad you had a deep opinion on the matter truth be told I quite enjoy the myths and hype surrounding certain gear and I have witnessed it first hand with a Rackto so i know there's hype but there's also truth in certain situations


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:49 pm 
Offline
Mark III

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:22 am
Posts: 307
lol wow that was a little darker then I was going for awesome post tho I'm glad you had a deep opinion on the matter truth be told I quite enjoy the myths and hype surrounding certain gear and I have witnessed it first hand with a Rackto so i know there's hype but there's also truth in certain situations


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:26 am 
Offline
Dual Recto
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:38 pm
Posts: 2271
Location: Blistered Earth
LOL. Don't take me too seriously. :wink:
I'm a mechanic by trade so I'm used to hype and folklore surrounding models of the past. I really enjoy it too as long as it's based on the merits of the model in question and not just some myth that gets repeated often enough to be mistaken for truth.

_________________
Mark V:25
Recto 2x12
ESP Explorer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:34 am 
Offline
Donating Member

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:18 pm
Posts: 2400
Location: Ithaca, NY...10 sq miles surrounded by reality!
Tone is subjective, so anyone saying "A" sounds better than "B" is referencing their own ears. Some amps, like the Mark II series, did include technical improvements (fx loop, improved reverb, quieter switching, etc), but some still prefer the tone of a IIA versus a IIC+. Nobody can predict what future changes to current production items will make the current model the "it", and nobody can say what will work best for you. While some may prefer the older "it" model, others may prefer the newer models.

_________________

Mk IIA->C+ DRGX head "Cold Sweat" in GTS shell
1966 Fender Pro Reverb
DC-3 head
Orange Dual Terror
EVM loaded Thiele; MS-12 1/2 back
71 SG; 72 Tele; 76 White Strat; 77 LP Custom; 81 Goldtop; 05 Am Dlx Strat; 11 G0 plaintop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:58 pm 
Offline
Mark III

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:22 am
Posts: 307
But when A consistently sounds better then B it has some merit like early 2 channels always sound better then rev G's and most of those recrdings you hear are mixed with sooo much more stuff theres no way of telling what exactly is on new recordings. Like Nickelback for example I know everyone hates them but they have an incredible live tone with mesa rectifier rack mounts I have been to a few of thier recent shows and the kick ass! Mark tremonti is using a 3 channel rectifier and his tone not as powerful or pronounced as Nickelbacks(when he is using the rectifier the rest of his rig is a wayy diffeerent story :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:08 pm 
Offline
Dual Recto
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:38 pm
Posts: 2271
Location: Blistered Earth
In a live mix, with a full band, in an arena venue, with who knows what in the loop, who knows what boosting, mic'd with multiple mics, into a board with who knows what post processing, to 50 different speakers all over, and a pro behind the strings,........
do you really think you'd be able to tell a revision f from a g?
I can use a 5 band eq to fool you in case you actually think you can. :wink:

Quit agonizing over the nuances and play more. :D

_________________
Mark V:25
Recto 2x12
ESP Explorer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:14 am 
Offline
Donating Member

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:18 pm
Posts: 2400
Location: Ithaca, NY...10 sq miles surrounded by reality!
ryjan wrote:
In a live mix, with a full band, in an arena venue, with who knows what in the loop, who knows what boosting, mic'd with multiple mics, into a board with who knows what post processing, to 50 different speakers all over, and a pro behind the strings,........
do you really think you'd be able to tell a revision f from a g?
I can use a 5 band eq to fool you in case you actually think you can. :wink:

Quit agonizing over the nuances and play more. :D


Agreed. As Mike Bendinelli once told me about STR415s, nobody can hear the difference after the first cymbal crash.

And to my original point addressing the initial concerns, the older ones aren't always "better", and much of it is a matter of taste and style. There is no telling which of today's models will become tomorrow's "it". Play as much gear as you can and choose what works best for you. Blind tests and a truly open mind can often be very revealing...

_________________

Mk IIA->C+ DRGX head "Cold Sweat" in GTS shell
1966 Fender Pro Reverb
DC-3 head
Orange Dual Terror
EVM loaded Thiele; MS-12 1/2 back
71 SG; 72 Tele; 76 White Strat; 77 LP Custom; 81 Goldtop; 05 Am Dlx Strat; 11 G0 plaintop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:42 am 
Offline
Dual Recto
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:38 pm
Posts: 2271
Location: Blistered Earth
Blind tests and a truly open mind can often be very revealing...
But then we'd have nothing to talk about here. :lol:

_________________
Mark V:25
Recto 2x12
ESP Explorer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:54 am 
Offline
Donating Member

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:18 pm
Posts: 2400
Location: Ithaca, NY...10 sq miles surrounded by reality!
ryjan wrote:
Blind tests and a truly open mind can often be very revealing...
But then we'd have nothing to talk about here. :lol:


:lol: :lol:

_________________

Mk IIA->C+ DRGX head "Cold Sweat" in GTS shell
1966 Fender Pro Reverb
DC-3 head
Orange Dual Terror
EVM loaded Thiele; MS-12 1/2 back
71 SG; 72 Tele; 76 White Strat; 77 LP Custom; 81 Goldtop; 05 Am Dlx Strat; 11 G0 plaintop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:09 pm 
Offline
Mark II

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:36 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Vancouver, Washington
BrentSSL wrote:
Got this idea when I was writing another post lol so sorry if it seems a little repeated. It always seems that when I look into buying a different amp of a certain manufacturer I seem to find out that the older on is better or there is a certain model thats better. This happens with pedals guitars and amps. So what gear other then the infamous block letter 5150 or Pre500 Dual rectos, Vintage tube screamers are out there that have a certain flavor that the rest of those same amps in that product line by that same Manufacturer don't have? Why and why did those earlier versions have the "IT" factor? Is there any current gear out there that have that extra special something that later models might not have? Or have we reached the pinnacle of our amp tones and possibilities. Because I am hoping that gear technology keeps moving forward
So share about gear that you have owned played or just know is great and holds some magic from a certain serial number or year or model

The Tone is in the fingers and it comes from some place deep inside the player, A Mythical Magical Mysterious mythical, sometime referred to as the soul. An Recording act live in a large place is an approximation of the sound on the record bolstered by your own memory of that sound which your psych tries to reinforce through a need for the familiar. A large part of the above statement (I agree with you) comes from the way Guitar gear is marketed. If you use this guitar or that amp or only this effect box is capable of reproducing that that recording, It's been used that way for decades know and is ingrained in our minds. This is further feed buy the Clapton (substitute your favorite artist here) is GOD syndrome, Hero Worship. Little does the naive kid at the Concert know about what signal processing used to produce the tonal pallets or that those drums sounds that the kid spent hours trying to tune his drums to sound like were gated compressed and hit the analog tape recorder so hard that they saturated the tape and were run through a ten thousand dollar digital reverb or that guitar sound he is hearing at that Aerosmith concert didn't come from the wall of amps on stage but from a a little hand built 18 watt Blockhead 1 12 combo back stage. they never get the fact that the equipment used in the studio is totally different than the stuff they see them use live. The don't have the faintest idea that the guitar that Slash is playing on stage is an hand built replica built by an independent master luthier of his fifties Les Paul and not an off the self Gibson Artist model with his name on it. All this has led to all the misinformation out there and perpetuated these myths about the gear we use, it takes years playing experience to hear the subtleties between different pieces of what is essentially the same model of guitar or amp, yes there are differences and they are mostly due to personal choice and if you know what you want and have the experience to be able to hear you don't give all the chatter a second thought because you do.

_________________
69SGCustom,ESArtist,RG440,ES135,PTNashvilleTelle,JD Telle,JM Strat,Triaxis,290,20/20.V-TwinRM,V-TwinPedal,Transatlantic,AC30H2L,62DeluxeReverb,VibroKing,SFProReverb,SFTwin "What comes from the heart lands on the heart"PeaceAndBlessingsAllphourus


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group