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 Post subject: Boogie Board FAQ
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:10 am 
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Triple Recto
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The FAQ consists of user-submitted entries. Because of the nature of something like this, there is bound to be opinion mixed in with fact. Not everyone might agree with this information but that's precisely the reason I wanted to post this to get feedback. If you see something that doesn't seem right, by all means PM me and let me know! If you see something you want to be added or think you might be able to help in any way, please PM me!

I hope this will help at least one person, it will have served its purpose by that! Due to the character limit per post, please do not post in this thread so we can have a complete list without posts interrupting it. Any questions please direct to PM
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> What is the difference between the Rectifier Standard Cabinet and the Traditional Cabinet?
The traditional cabinet is like a typical cabinet from other vendors. The standard cab is oversized and results in more bass and a bigger sound. With the standard cab you sacrafice tight tracking and the tighter bass of the traditional cabinet. (Platypus)
---
> My amp is broken, how should I troubleshoot it?
The product manual is a great resource for this, check it out at http://www.mesaboogie.com
The most common problem people have with tube amplifiers is not surprisingly the tubes. Figuring out which tube is bad can be challenging but here are some general guidelines.

> My amp doesn't even turn on, no lights on the front panel, no sound whatsoever!
You've most likely blown a fuse. Use your product manual to figure out which amperage you need to replace it with. This is VERY IMPORTANT. This solves the problem of your amp not turning on.. however there is a reason your fuse blew and the following will help you decide which tube was at fault.

> My amp turns on but the sound is very quiet, the sound is muffled or strange, there are microphonics (squeals, strange sounds), the channels don't function the way they used to!
You've most likely got a pre-amp tube problem. The best way to troubleshoot these is to remove the metal casings if there are any and take a pen or pencil and gently tap the glass while playing through your guitar... not hard enough that you'd break it but hard enough that you get a nice sizeable 'ding' out of it. The bad tube will make ugly sounds when struck.

> My amp sounds muddy, not as tight as it used to be, or simply keeps blowing fuses.
These are classic symptoms of power tube failure. The best way to troubleshoot the power tubes is to purchase a few fuses as discussed earlier and replace the blown fuse that most likely resulted in the first place. Turn your amp around and power it on.. leaving it in standby. Watch the tubes closely... there will most likely be a blueish lightning storm inside the tube and your amp will turn off again, blowing the new fuse. If nothing happens, disengage the standby switch and start playing, slowly increase volume. You will see the bad tube present itself at this stage. IMPORTANT: If you find a bad tube, you MUST replace it's 'mate' with a matched tube. Check in the manual to see which tubes are 'pairs.' ex. On a dual rectifier, tubes 1 and 4 are mates and tubes 2 and 3 are also mates. (Platypus)
---
> How do I change my tubes?
This is a simple procedure though at first slightly intimidating. First, turn your amp completely off. This is a contradiction to the Mesa manaul stating that it can be done while the amp is on and in standby.. there's no right answer there but it's safer in my opinion to just remove that risk, no matter how slight. The easiest way is to remove any holders that might be clamping the tube into place.. usually by bending them away from the tube. At this point, grab the tube at the top with your hand and slowly rock it back and forth while pulling up at the same time. Be gentle until you understand the motion. Once the tube is removed, follow the same procedure in reverse. The tubes are typically 'keyed' in that they'll only fit into the slot in one way. The easiest way to find this notch is to place the tube directly over the socket and slowly turn it until you feel it 'catch.' You do NOT want to force a tube into a socket, it will go easily. After you find the notch, slowly rock it back and forth into the socket and make sure it's completely seated before engaging your amplifier again. (Platypus)

> How do I change a fuse?
On most Mesa's there is a small screw-on cover over the fuse, gently turn it while pulling and it should pop out with ease. Remove the fuse from this cover and replace it in the exact same way you removed it. WARNING: Make sure you are replacing it with the proper fuse type!!! This information can be found in your product manual. (Platypus)

> How do I get better cleans out of my Rectifier?
First, the key to getting a good clean sound is power-amp volume. The squeeze of the power tubes is what gives you the bounce and glassy-ness your looking for as well as girth to compete with the other channels. I know that cranking the output is about an unrealistic thought as you can get but I have a work-around. It has worked well on my Triple recto and I get some great clean sounds. Try putting your overall output @ noon(straight up). Turn your clean channel master output all of the way off and then place your Gain all of the way up-(maxed). Presence is maxed. Now turn your Bass to 11 o'clock(for my PRS Dragon 2's in my SG this works but depending on your circumstance you may need to adjust B-M-T settings). Place your Mids between 8 o'clock and 9 o'clock and your Treble @ 2 o'clock. Now take your channel master and bring it up to your desired overall volume. This should give you a nice sparkle without overdriving the signal too much with great clean sustain, dynamics and compression from the maxed gain. What I have found is that the more Mids you introduce to the signal, the more gain you will see. Control Distortion through your mid-control and add sparkle with the Treble. I find these settings to be ballanced for my instrument. Now take the channel master from your other channels and turn them off as well and then bring them up in order to match the desired level. (Micah)

> What would it sound like if I pulled tubes to lower headroom?
Id like to step in as a Triple 3 Channel owner that has owned a Tremoverb previously. I decided to pull 2 tubes out of my Dual TOV and I will tell you that I played the amp like that for about a year. I'll say that the one thing that I did notice other than the drop in presence(interpreted as volume) was that it seemed to suck the tone out of the amp and make it sound smaller and tin - "y"er. Overall I found a better tone just turning the volume down and playing with all 4 tubes in. Also, when I was deciding to move up to a Triple, I had the oportunity to play a single, dual, and Triple a - b - c and keep everything tone setting wise exactly the same and go back and forth. I'll tell you that my perception of the tonal differences behind wattage increases/decreases has completely changed. When it comes down to it, loud is loud! I had a 22 watt Mesa Subway Rocket that would just about blow your ear-drums @ any level past 3 out of 10!! I had a '79 Mesa Mark IIb 60 watt that was almost unbearable decently past 2 out of 10 on the power amp. The biggest differnce I could tell in the wattage differences was the decrease in bottom end @ a particular volume in the lower wattage amplifiers. I like my Triple because it stays bigger without squeezing the bottom end out of it. But thats my ear. Some guys like lower wattage amps because they like the tone in the midrange while some guys like the best of both worlds so they go with Duals. Its to your ear. I would suggest that you try all 3 and dont not buy the triple because you think it will be to loud. Its not about loud, but about girth and sweetness. Try all 3 preferably next to each other!! (Micah)

> How-to for posting images:

1.) join and then upload your pics onto a website like photobucket.com
2) click on the "img" link under your image on photobucket (this automatically copies the link to your clipboard).
3). in your post here paste the link - no need to use the "img" button above while typing your post as photobucket already adds the "img" code to the link. (gts)

> My amp pops when it changes channels.

A quick fix that has worked for myself and others is to completely cycles through all the channels while the amp in on, but while you are still in standby ending with the Orange channel. With a Single/Dual/Triple Rectifier try 1-2-3-1-2. With my Roadster I switch 1-2-3-4-1-2-3. This and "band" volume eliminates all pops from my amp. (domct203)

> My Roadster takes forever to change channels.

Does your Roadster suffer from a lag in the time it takes to switch channels? See the Topic Roadster Channel Lag Fix in the Modern Era Amps / Rectifier forum for a quick fix to try.


Last edited by Platypus on Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:04 am 
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Triple Recto
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> Volume Vs. Wattage

The drawback that you would run into with a lower wattage power amp is that in order to push bottom end you need wattage. Wattage isnt volume. Wattage is horse-power. Wattage is to volume what hosepower is to mph. The more wattage or power you have, the more potential you have to hear your bottom end. You might see a few more DB's but not much. Were talking going from a 100 watt dual to a 150 watt triple rectifier your only going to see an actual volume increase of about 6 db @ maximum volume output. Thats not much to your ear. I had a 22 watt Subway Rocket and that sucker was piercing loud. I couldnt hardly play above 3 on the stage without getting complaints. Loud is loud, but the hugeness of your sound depends on wattage. The Dual Rectifier seems to be the best of both worlds for most players, which is why its probably the best selling of the rectifier series. I personally prefer my triple due to the ability I have to push that low end and get an absoloutly huge sound on stage--not that you cant get that with a single or dual but I feel it more on stage naturaly. I dont think what you want is lower wattage with the rectifier. The idea of the amp is to push as much clean bottom end into your overdriven sound as possible without getting flabby or muddy. The lower in wattage that you go with this style of amp, the quicker your bottom end will mud out. Which im sure is why Mesa made the smallest rectifier series power amp 50 watts, to keep that bottom end cleaner for longer. If you are having trouble getting a hotter sounding tone @ a reasonable volume, try pegging the presence all of the way up and dial out the nasties with your tone controls. Then try expirimenting with your preamp volume or channel master(not gain) in relationship to your volume or Output of the amp. This mixture I am convinced has everything to do with the ability of the amp to sing and sustain and feed-back like a hot amp should. The beauty of the rectifier is that it has so much gain in the front end that you dont have to have as much power amp gain or volume to get it to sing. I like to set my triple sometimes to 10 oclock on the Channel Master (chanels 2 and 3) and 10 oclock on the Output. This being said my preamp gain is @ 2:30 oclock to push it to feed-back and sustain while enhancing the low mids for that chunk you want. Hope this helps! (Micah)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:05 am 
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I wonder why peeps don't utilize this thread more?

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:53 pm 
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Human nature I suppose.... Laziness is hard to overcome. Given today's I want it now mentality I am sure it gets overlooked very easily. Also, you can't expect a noob to know about FAQ's.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:43 pm 
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Russ wrote:
you can't expect a noob to know about FAQ's.

Of course... What was i thinking? Expecting the noobs to read...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:15 am 
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Interesting!

Can someone please explain to me why a 100w tube blows the hell out of a 100w solid in loudness? I think a VOX 30w is about equivalent to my 100w solid at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Boogie Board FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:34 pm
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Platypus wrote:
> How do I get better cleans out of my Rectifier?
First, the key to getting a good clean sound is power-amp volume. The squeeze of the power tubes is what gives you the bounce and glassy-ness your looking for as well as girth to compete with the other channels. I know that cranking the output is about an unrealistic thought as you can get but I have a work-around. It has worked well on my Triple recto and I get some great clean sounds. Try putting your overall output @ noon(straight up). Turn your clean channel master output all of the way off and then place your Gain all of the way up-(maxed). Presence is maxed. Now turn your Bass to 11 o'clock(for my PRS Dragon 2's in my SG this works but depending on your circumstance you may need to adjust B-M-T settings). Place your Mids between 8 o'clock and 9 o'clock and your Treble @ 2 o'clock. Now take your channel master and bring it up to your desired overall volume. This should give you a nice sparkle without overdriving the signal too much with great clean sustain, dynamics and compression from the maxed gain. What I have found is that the more Mids you introduce to the signal, the more gain you will see. Control Distortion through your mid-control and add sparkle with the Treble. I find these settings to be ballanced for my instrument. Now take the channel master from your other channels and turn them off as well and then bring them up in order to match the desired level. (Micah)

This is very useful to me (as a new Rectifier user). I'm going to try this and see if it helps me find my best clean tone.

Does anyone else use similar setting for their clean tone in their Rectifier?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:05 am 
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History and Lineage of the Rectifier and IIC+...revisions, serial numbers, etc.

www.TheBoogieArchives.com

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'92 Dual Recto Rev. D, Volume mod
'84 Mark IIC+ Coliseum
'85 Mark IIC++ DRG, V1 mod
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Sold:
'92 Dual Recto Rev. C
'92 Dual Recto Rev. E
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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Mark IV
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timme_v wrote:
Interesting!

Can someone please explain to me why a 100w tube blows the hell out of a 100w solid in loudness? I think a VOX 30w is about equivalent to my 100w solid at the moment.



Wattage rating are really a measurement of "clean" output before the point of distortion. Solid state power amps don't distort easily so the "clean" Wattage measurement tends to be farily close to the amp's full potential power output.

In contrast, as power is increased in a tube amp the signal starts to distort much earlier. So the "clean" measurement is taken far before the amp reaches it's maximum potential [but distorted] volume.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:56 am 
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Platypus wrote:
> Volume Vs. Wattage

The drawback that you would run into with a lower wattage power amp is that in order to push bottom end you need wattage. Wattage isnt volume. Wattage is horse-power. Wattage is to volume what hosepower is to mph. The more wattage or power you have, the more potential you have to hear your bottom end. You might see a few more DB's but not much. Were talking going from a 100 watt dual to a 150 watt triple rectifier your only going to see an actual volume increase of about 6 db @ maximum volume output. Thats not much to your ear. I had a 22 watt Subway Rocket and that sucker was piercing loud. I couldnt hardly play above 3 on the stage without getting complaints. Loud is loud, but the hugeness of your sound depends on wattage. The Dual Rectifier seems to be the best of both worlds for most players, which is why its probably the best selling of the rectifier series. I personally prefer my triple due to the ability I have to push that low end and get an absoloutly huge sound on stage--not that you cant get that with a single or dual but I feel it more on stage naturaly. I dont think what you want is lower wattage with the rectifier. The idea of the amp is to push as much clean bottom end into your overdriven sound as possible without getting flabby or muddy. The lower in wattage that you go with this style of amp, the quicker your bottom end will mud out. Which im sure is why Mesa made the smallest rectifier series power amp 50 watts, to keep that bottom end cleaner for longer. If you are having trouble getting a hotter sounding tone @ a reasonable volume, try pegging the presence all of the way up and dial out the nasties with your tone controls. Then try expirimenting with your preamp volume or channel master(not gain) in relationship to your volume or Output of the amp. This mixture I am convinced has everything to do with the ability of the amp to sing and sustain and feed-back like a hot amp should. The beauty of the rectifier is that it has so much gain in the front end that you dont have to have as much power amp gain or volume to get it to sing. I like to set my triple sometimes to 10 oclock on the Channel Master (chanels 2 and 3) and 10 oclock on the Output. This being said my preamp gain is @ 2:30 oclock to push it to feed-back and sustain while enhancing the low mids for that chunk you want. Hope this helps! (Micah)


I'd like to comment on this. Wattage is more analogous to torque / HP and volume is definitely MPH, but it should be mentioned that the speaker rating is analogous to the weight of a vehicle. A 70watt speaker takes a lot more horsepower to drive than a 15watt speaker so the overall handling capabilities of a 4 x 12 will really influence the response of the head going into it. Like with 20watts, you don't have much hope of sufficiently driving 240watts worth of Standard Rectocab. That is a lot of speaker magnet to move and with this setup, the cab truly sounds constipated because the head can't push enough current. If you put the same 20watt head through 100watts worth of Marshall 1960ax, it thumps and sounds far louder.

Speaker Efficiency. Volume is partially connected to wattage. The missing piece of this puzzle is speaker efficiency. For every watt, each model of loudspeaker produces a certain amount of volume. This is called Decibels/ Watt / Metre. Basically, if you put a watt through a loudspeaker and measure the DB level at a metre from the cone, what amount of sound is coming out of it. This is a trick Amp builders use to make a low power amp sound super huge and loud. If you have an extremely high efficiency speaker, you will get a loud sound no matter how many watts are coming through it. A great way to harness the power of a Triple and curb the blaring loudness is to run two Marshall 1960ax or a Marshall 1960a, both of which have speakers that produce 97db / watt / metre. Basically, a Dual running a standard Rectocab (v30s put out 100db / watt / metre) will be every so slightly louder than the Triple running the two marshall cabs listed above. With this cab trick, a 100watt Mesa head can be as loud as a 50watt one provided the cab the 100watt head is running has less efficient speakers. I hope this kind of makes sense.

Tone and wattage.
When dealing with loud drummers, clubs, jam space, and outdoor venues, it doesn't really matter whether one is running a 50watt or a 150watt head. In this case, 4 x 12s are most certainly necessary, but what about a volume sensitive context? You know, if you are playing in an apartment next to a baby, or you have one of these anal soundmen who's idea of a respectable stage volume is off on your amp. What if you simply must record at 5 in the morning? How do we actually get decent tube tone without ending up with a massive case of tinnitus?
I found that I rarely ran my Dual at 100watts because I liked that I could hit the sweet spot much sooner at a lower wattage, far sooner than a Triple. Basically, while a Triple still sounds cramped and constipated, a 50watt head has plenty of leg room for tube saturation.
The real key to getting a decent gain tone is being able to run the tubes and speakers hard enough so my approach was to use one low efficiency 25watt speaker in a 1 x 12 with running my Dual with two Yellow Jackets. (EL-84s) Now you don't get an impressive stage sound this way at all, but through a PA, it sounds like the amp is running super hot, like a house on fire! Still, the 1 x 12 doesn't have the spread or frequency response of a 4 x 12 so I searched for another alternative. I tried some cabs in a store and happened upon a Dr Z Z best cab, which is a thiele 2 x 12. A thiele cab with a low wattage cab is really a great way, in my opinion, to downsize huge tone without having it sound small and blaring. With only one speaker, you don't need the same amount of Horse Power to get a huge thump and it is ideal for volume sensitive applications. They also track much faster because of the smaller internal volume.


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 Post subject: Re: Boogie Board FAQ
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:21 am 
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Well...thanks!

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:00 am 
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Mark III
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Guitarzan wrote:
I wonder why peeps don't utilize this thread more?


My best guess would be: in todays world of instant gratification, and give me give me give me,
not now, I mean yesterday.

It is simply easier to post a question in CAP's begging for HELP.

Just my first thought and my opinion.
/cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:30 am 
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GD_NC wrote:
timme_v wrote:
Interesting!

Can someone please explain to me why a 100w tube blows the hell out of a 100w solid in loudness? I think a VOX 30w is about equivalent to my 100w solid at the moment.



Wattage rating are really a measurement of "clean" output before the point of distortion. Solid state power amps don't distort easily so the "clean" Wattage measurement tends to be farily close to the amp's full potential power output.

In contrast, as power is increased in a tube amp the signal starts to distort much earlier. So the "clean" measurement is taken far before the amp reaches it's maximum potential [but distorted] volume.



It is my understanding that a 50 watt tube amp is 50 watts at 4/8/16 ohms, that is due to the tube and output transformer working together with the speakers.
If you look at a solid state amp, they are usually rated,this is just an example , 25 watts @ 16 ohms, 35@ 8 ohms, and perhaps 50 watts at 4 ohms. Again 50 watts is not 2xs as loud as 25 watts, but there is more current going to the 4 ohm speaker. The newer d and H (h is a different type of d) class amps have toridial outputs, and really no output transformer, that is why a 500 watt per channel Xs two channels into 8 ohms amp weighs around 15-20 pounds and in some cases lighter. Yet a 50 watt per channel Xs two channel into 4/8/16 ohms is around 50-60 pounds or even more.
On the same note, and a hint is it is not the price of the tubes, a 50 watt stereo tube amp of lower quality may start around $1k and a 300 watt 7 channel"home theatre" amp start at about $300.00s.
Some people may want to add all the tech reasons why this is, but again I am giving a general example.

Nothing more ironic then seeing a $2k tube amp with an ipod docking station.
Just what I want to hear. Compressed,flat, zeros and ones "binary code"choking and stuttering hard; trying to sound like music through an expensive possibly nice sounding tube amp.

Sorry for the rant but had to get some of this digital dislike out of me.
/cheers


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

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timme_v wrote:
Interesting!

Can someone please explain to me why a 100w tube blows the hell out of a 100w solid in loudness? I think a VOX 30w is about equivalent to my 100w solid at the moment.


I would say first the 100w would probably be only 6 to 7 db's louder to begin with and Second, check the sensitivity of the speaker. The 100w ss amp probably has a crappy speaker only rated at 65 to 85, while your Vox probably has a speaker rated at 100 or better, making it much more efficient.

Also, check to ensure the 100w amp is 100W RMS, and not 100w peak or program or whatever. A 100w peak amp is probably only 30w RMS. RMS is the true power rating.


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