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 Post subject: Gold Lion 12ax7.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:17 am 
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Mark II

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:06 am
Posts: 69
has anyone put/or have a Gold Lion in V1 in a Dual Recto?
can i get some feed back please..good bad other.
what did it do tone wise and are they worth the cash?
Thanks for any info. :P

_________________
98 revG 2CDR
Randall T2
jcm900
jcm800
2x1960 4x12 cabs
Jackson COW7x2
Jackson SLAT3-7
ESP viper7
ESP STEF7
ESP STEF8
Ibanez universe
Ibanez rg1527
EBMM JP7
and too many 6ers that dont get used


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Lion 12ax7.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:29 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2656
Location: North Carolina
I tried one and was completely disappointed. For some reason, it did not work all that well in any my Mesa amps. Too much pop corn noise and other odd sounds. It was okay in the Cavin V3MC buy sounded like it was sucking tone, needless to say the one tube was a waist of money. The tube is not hat much different from a Sovtec LPS or Mullard 12ax7, both of which are long plate 12ax7. I have had similar issues with the Mullard version. You will get better results with a short plate or medium plate 12ax7 than a long plate design which are more prone to mechanical noise (Mullard) or impedance issues (Mullard, Gold Lion). Amps that shift the operating point of the tube circuit will result in pinging noises that may trigger microphonics. The long plate 12ax7 would be better served in a high fidelity tube amp than a guitar amp. I only got the Sovtec for use as a PI. The Mullard would probably work there too but should be a match and balanced triode. The other Gold Lion tube I have seen are either Chinese versions (not bad tubes but you can get nearly the same at a lower price in a different brand). I do like the Mullard CV4004 which are similar to the Tung Sol or EH12ax7 but are slightly different as well as the tone. Almost provided a scooped tone in the Mark V (used in later gain staiges) and in V1 and V2 of the Roadster it changed the undertones in reduction of the low mids and gave the amp a more Marshall tone. Since I have two high gain channels in the Roadster, it rendered both channels to sound almost the same. I prefer to have the channels a bit different so the Standard Mesa tubes provided that. Tung Sol in V1 or V1 and V2 seemed to have similar results but sounded thinner in the low mids. I have experimented with tubes in the Roadster only to find myself returning back to stock as I prefer the stock tubes in this amp. Hey, it is a preference thing when it comes to tubes.

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Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Lion 12ax7.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:44 am 
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Mark II

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:06 am
Posts: 69
cheers for for sharing your findings,this is why i asked..dont want to drop the coin(its very expensive here in Australia)till i can find out how it reacts specifically with rectos.

_________________
98 revG 2CDR
Randall T2
jcm900
jcm800
2x1960 4x12 cabs
Jackson COW7x2
Jackson SLAT3-7
ESP viper7
ESP STEF7
ESP STEF8
Ibanez universe
Ibanez rg1527
EBMM JP7
and too many 6ers that dont get used


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gold Lion 12ax7.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:28 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2656
Location: North Carolina
I only bought one Gold Lion ECC83/B759 in part due to the high cost, and the other wanted to find out what all the hype was all about. Even though it looks like an identical tube to the Sovtek LPS or Mullard 12ax7, it did sound slightly different when it was not making the pop corn sound. I even tried a Northern Electric 12ax7 which is similar in construction to the NOS RFT 12AT7 I have in use in my RA100. That actually sounded nice but it too suffered the ping noise when changing channels due to the shift in operating point of the triode circuit. A NOS JAN/GE 5157 did make a difference in V1 or V2 (with a stock tube in V1) which was quite interesting. The slight reduction in gain as well as the overall brightness of the 5157 (also slight drop in mids) seemed to give the Roadster a vintage vibe to it. The Roadster is a bit different than the other Rectifiers as the cathode follower circuits use different tube positions (more than likely due to the reverb circuit). To be honest, I have used Tung Sol and stock Mesa tubes more than the others. Currently, I have all mesa 12ax7 in all of my amps, and the Roadster is the only one with Stock Power tubes. Both the Mark V and Roadster I am using a Mesa SPAX7 in V1. I may end up installing a stock tube in V1 of the Roadster just to hear the difference since it has been so long since I have used the standard tube there.

Both the JJ sourced tubes (current Mesa 12ax7) and the Shuguang 12ax7A will hold up in a cathode follower where as the soviet tubes (mallard, tung sol, eH, Gold lion, Svetlana, Sovtek, etc...) will not. Check your amp manual for tube position assignments ("tone stack", and "FX Send" circuits are cathode followers.) I believe you can find a list of models and what tube positions are what for the majority of Mesa amps in the Rectifier forums, it is one of the sticky notes at the top.

Change in the tone stack tube (should also have another gain stage associated with it) will not do much for changing tone of the amp. A lower gain tube may also increase the low frequency response of the amp (increase, not decrease). What I found thus far for V1 in my Roadster was the Mesa SPAX7. Many use a Tung Sol in V1 which does seem to reduce the bottom end and enhance the higher frequencies. The case with the Roadster and CH4, it is much darker in character than the other channels. How the response will be in your amp is unknown. The low end and top end of the amp is already designed into the gain stages, tubes will enhance or subdue some of the characteristics but will not remove them entirely. Tube rolling can be interesting in one respect but can also be disappointing in others. One other tube position that is often overlooked is the PI tube. This may not effect the gain character of the amp but will affect tone structure. In the Roadster, the Sovtek LPS did brighten up the amp almost as much as a Tung Sol in V1. However, I have become addicted to the character of the Mesa 6L6GC with the stock tubes in all positions as the grinding sound from moderate distortion is more 3D sounding. I would poll your question in the Rectifier forums for opinions about effects of the change in V1 tube relating to your amp.

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Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Lion 12ax7.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:38 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2656
Location: North Carolina
If I had the Mullard rotated just a bit to show the sides of the plates, it would appear identical to the Gold Lion tube. Perhaps there is a difference in plating and grid wire. I only bought the one GL but have several of the Mullards. A few of them did not behave properly in the amp as they would ping and that would result in microphonics on occasion. Character of a good tube would be gooey mids and loads of gain which tend to muddy the tone a bit. Not all that great as a V1 tube but better in latter gain stages or a PI tube. Had too many issue with them so they are not in use. If the GL was worth the extra coin I would have raved about it in here. One tube that is worth the consideration would be a JAN GE 5751 which seems to behave differently in different amps. That was a favorite for me for a while as a V1 tube in the Mark V, until I broke it trying the tube in other amps. I did get a replacement and have used it in the Roadster which I thought sounded really good with the Modern modes but just did not do justice for the other channels and voicings. I may try it again as I am now more familiar with the Roadster.

Image

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Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Lion 12ax7.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:30 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2656
Location: North Carolina
I did have good luck using the GL12AX7 in the Stiletto without making popping sounds. It did not work very well in the Mark V, RA100 or the Roadster. The preamp tubes of the Stiletto must be at a different plate voltage than the other amps. I would not buy another one of these tubes though.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Lion 12ax7.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:02 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2656
Location: North Carolina
Never mind, it worked for a while but did not take long to pop corn in the Stiletto. If it was not for the noise the tone is similar to a Mullard 12AX7 (long plate or Reissue). The Mullard CV4004 is a much better tube and has a vivid gain character. Depending on which amp you use it in and what position, it will reduce the low end a bit and emphasize on the low to upper mids, has good round off of the top end too. It was a bit too much for the RA100, in the Roadster it shifted the tone a bit similar to tung sol but not as bright. In the Stiletto as a V2 (input for fat clean and fluid drive) it helped to reduce the bass dominance and really enhanced the gain character to that comparable to the Mark V capability.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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