tung-sol in v1

Amplified parts has a preamp tube chart where they show tung sol's as very quiet, and also high gain. True?:
http://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/12ax7_comparison_of_current_made_tubes

I am playing through a 2 channel Triple 97' (Rev G?) new tubes:
JJ 6L6
JJ 12ax7

The gain is typical (100 - 110). The Tung-Sol are well made. However, they have a tone that is different than the stock Mesa Chinese tube. You will notice in increase in bass response. I have rolled in TS and rolled them out. It matters what your power tubes are. If you have ample amounts of bass already, you will get a deeper tone with a TS in V1. Also it matters what amp you have. I used TS in all positions in a Mark IV, clean channel was amazing, but ch2 and Lead suffered. Had the same results with TS in V1 and mesa tubes in all other positions. In the Mark V, it is a different animal. TS in V1 will enhance the tone, but will also add a bit more bass. You will also get a similar enhancement in V7, V4 and V5 when using other tubes in the other positions. I have GT branded SED's =C= which are full bodied and lots of bass response. Adding a TS was too much for me. Also it will cut some of the high frequencies so some extent. You will still have brightness, just not as much. Gain is not as grainy as the new JJ or the stock Mesa tubes. Low noise, yes, I would agree with that.

All I can say, get one and try it. you may like it or you will not.

I've been using the new production TS in V1 for a few years now in my Mark IV and have been very happy, but only in V1. Much more clarity and yes quite. Also has opened the amp up a bit and is not as compressed as before. As far as power tubes, I'm using SED =C= 6L6/EL34 combination. The Tung-Sol (RI) are pretty cheap enough for you to buy just one and try it out.

I'm using a current production TungSol 12AX7 for the V1 of my TriAxis and it helped clean up the Lead 1 Modes considerably. The midrange was honky with the stock tubes, but silky smooth with the TS, the highs with the TS are less piercing as well. It's kind of a bright tube but in a Mesa that's not really an issue, I absolutely hate it in my Marshall, however. Also noticed a decrease in compression like swbo101, but that's a good thing in my case. That is why I have them in both PI positions in my 2:90.

Oh btw I'm another =C= 6L6 user, great great tubes.

As bandit2013 pointed out, the sound depends on which amp the tubes are going into, and the TS are great tubes. I like the TS a lot, the tone is a nice rich/warm sound when clean, with a smooth, warm/woody distortion, retaining definition in most amps. I have only found a very few amps in which I didn't like the sound of the TS. I tried all TS in the preamp of the TA-15, and I actually preferred the Mesa labeled JJ in this particular amp. In the TA-15, I like the chimey clean on channel 1, and the crunchy/crisp modern distortion on channel 2, with the JJ, whereas the TS were too warm and smooth for the sound that I wanted from the amp. In the Peavey Classic 30, the Tung Sol were perfect for the warm clean, and smooth vintage type distortion that I wanted, while still having good clarity and definition.

This is why it is a good idea to have several different types to try in each amp, you just never know until you try, as tastes differ. AES/CE Distribution (Amplified Parts) are great people that I deal with a lot, and they will do their best to make you happy and guarantee their tubes.

I've been using TS in V1, V2, and V3 for my Dyne. For that amp, I have noticed a brighter sparkle on the Vin Lo and Vin Hi modes compared to the stock Mesa tubes. V4 and V5 in the Dyne are for the clean mode, and I switched to JAN 5751s. I am also using TS EL34s in the power section. In my Dyne, the combination is the best tone I have ever had. But, that's my ears and my rig. Don't forget that your speakers and cab will also influence your tone. So, what works for my rig may not work for yours.

Good points jnoel64, the sound produced from the amp is the sum of all parts, and tastes are intangible. Keep in mind when someone dislikes a certain tube, it could be that it just doesn't work with their particular setup, but would be fine in another. I was surprised that I didn't care for the TS 12AX7 in a Bassman with V30s, yet liked an EH 12AY7 which normally I don't like in almost any other amp. At the same time, someone else might love the TS in that same Bassman. :?:

I have tried TS in all positions in the Mark V. I was not too impressed with that. I did the same for the Mark IV, that gave the amp a very awesome clean channel sound but CH2 and the Lead channel suffered, lack of definition, a bit muddy on the high gain settings which over taxed the C90. I have new production Svetlana 6L6GC in the Mark IV (which are not all that bad) and in the Mark V GT6L6R-2 which are old stock relabeled SED =C=.

It all depends on the characteristics of the Power tubes. Stock Mesa 6L6GC STR440 are a bit rich on the high end. TS will enhance bass response and help cut down the over abundant high frequencies (found the JAN-GE 5751 did a better job). Since I have moved on to wing = C= with bright orange logo (for those who cannot believe that Groove tubes sold relabeled SED's, they did many years ago with the Gold Series), TS and including the JAN-GE5751 were out of the picture since I discovered that the HG Ruby 12ax7 was a better option (similar in design to the JJ but not grainy). I actually like the EH12ax7, right now I have those in v2-v6 in the Mark V, Sovetek LPS in V7, and Ruby HG in V1. The MKV is almost endless in tone, and it changes with the tubes. This is one amp that can be tailored.

I did enjoy a TS in V1 for a short period with the 6L6 winged C, but opted for a different tone in order to wake up CH2 of the MKV. Many here, and elsewhere are using TS in V1.

I have a feeling TungSol would be better suited for a Recto-type Mesa than a Mark.

What about a mullard?

I have heard good things about NOS Mullards. Not quite sure how well the reissue holds up. I believe the reissue is manufactured by the same company as the TungSol. Same applies for the Electro Haromonix which are similar to the TungSol but different. I actually prefer the EH over the TS in my Mark V. Not sure how that would sound in a Triple rec.

Some of the NOS tubes are pricey. The best option is to find a current production tube that fits your taste without the high expense of hard to get tubes.

It would be to your advantage to get a few current production tubes and try them out before seeking NOS tubes.

bandit2013 said:

I have heard good things about NOS Mullards. Not quite sure how well the reissue holds up.

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I've used the RI Mullards for the PI and gain slots in the Mark IV with success. No problems there.

I use a KenRad in V1 now (thanks TimbreWolf !), but the Mullard reissue is pretty made for that position in the Mark V !
You may test 2 or 3 before finding a good one as they are long plates 12AX7 and could be microphonic in that position when dialing huge amount of gain.

I've had TungSol 12AX7s in my Ace for almost 5 years now and I'm finally noticing some degradation...sooo, I guess it's time for some new ones! :mrgreen:

Seriously...they are quiet and reliable too, at least for me. I'm running TS EL34Bs in the power section as well. Love the sound of my Ace since the day I got it...the TungSols made it better! 8)

jnoel64 said:

Don't forget that your speakers and cab will also influence your tone. So, what works for my rig may not work for yours.

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I forgot to post that i am running a 3/4 back 4x12 w/ c90's. I think i would like to brighten things up a bit. I find myself running my treble on high settings (3-5!) to get the tone i want. I perfer to keep the presence dialed back a bit(10). I don't dare bring my bass over 12. And this all on red modern. So i would describe my rig as on the warmer side for sure. playing a Epi. LP 7 LE, 62-10ga. also messed around w/ plugging the hole in the back of the cab :lol: to see what that would do, though i think c90's are designed to move more air than what that small cab will allow unopened. I played on a 4x12 w/ v30's and the brightness seemed to make my gain more responsive..

I pondered putting a couple v30's on top but i don't know that it would be a wise investment..

Edit: Oh yeah i forgot to add that my local tech said my power tubes though they all measured "exactly the same", he said they were "cold tubes" "they all measured 14". for what it is worth..
So i would like to try something on the bright side, high gain..

The V30's do have a slightly different tone than the C90. Probably due to the smaller voice coil. You probably could swap two C90's for two V30's. How is the cab wired? Is it similar to the closed back Mesa Cab with the dual 4 ohm (split) single 8 ohm (series/parallel) ?

You could always opt for Mesa 6L6GC STR440, they are bright power tubes. SED or TAD winged C may be an option. Some like the TAD's over the SED's, and some don't. I have not tried TAD's so I cannot offer opinion on them. SED's sound awesome when pushed into clip. It is always a gamble when getting tubes you have no experience with. Unfortunately SED's are hard to get now. They are still made, however, us market has banned sale of SED due to the New Sensor lawsuit and rights to the Svetlana trade name. Svetlana 6L6GC are a bit brighter than the SED's. They are not true Svetlana's (only SED are true Svetlana's), but they sound close. Design is very similar except for single getter. I have a quad of these in my MkIV and have installed them in the V to compare to the SED tubes. The New Sensor Svetlana tubes are not as deep in the bass response as the SED's.

I have 1982 Carvin X100B. I have used several brands of 6L6 (including Mesa) and finally settled in for Svetlana. My experience with those tubes in that amp were completely different than explained above. I found the high end rolled off a bit as did the bottom end. The mids got bumped up a notch making the amp sound more like it was powered by EL34s than 6L6. As with each amp, YMMV, different tone paths and circuits respond differently with each kind of tube. For my money, in that Carvin, I will never use anything but Svetlana 6L6GCs. I am tempted to give them a shot in my Dyne after the TS EL34s finally give out, but that will be a long time...

:roll: im bad at this :lol: bright and high gain in the preamp.

JJ 12ax7 HG are bright with high gain, Ruby 12ax7 HG similar to JJ but slightly different in character is also bright with high gain. I found the JJ HG version to be a bit grainy or fizzy which was not apparent in the Ruby branded tube (only have two to compare). Tung Sol is not bright, it is balanced or has a flat gain over the bandwidth of the guitar. EH is similar to Tung So. but does not have the same low frequency response, also balanced in tone. Also, if it is brightness you want, you will get more with the power tubes. If the power tubes have a moderate roll off of the upper range, you overall tone will not be bright if that is what you are after. Mesa STR440 are bright in character. TungSol 7581 are also very bright but enhance the low frequencies. They are not as robust as SED winged = C=. I have not used JJ power tubes so I cannot express an opinion on them. The phase inverter tube will also impact tone on the power tubes. All of this I discovered with the Mark V which is considerably different than the DS or TS amp. I found the Mark V out of the box was too bright, but that was related to oscillating Power tube which cured itself by red plating which eventually took out it's A/B partner.