2 Channel Triple rec questions

Talk about tubes and their effect on your tone

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Tone1026
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2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by Tone1026 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:28 pm

Hey guys,
I have a few questions.
1) The 2 channel manual doesn't specify which pre amp tubes effect which channels, it only labels them in stages. Anybody know what tubes effect what? Not identical to the 3 channel is it?

2) I have noticed the the clean setting when "style select" is in "orange to modern" is the loudest of all is that normal? (with all the levels being set the same)

3) Is sudden tone changes pre amp tube related?

4) the gain on this thing doesn't seem to have much sizzle... normal?

Bought the amp used. all mesa tubes, el34 442 (not original right?) spax7-a, and 54ug.
I know i should re tube it right?

Also i get quite the "pop" when switching channels,

Tone1026
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Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by Tone1026 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:39 pm

Also amp # is 9633 any idea how old?

mesaboogie6L6
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Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by mesaboogie6L6 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:28 pm

1) Not sure which pre's affect what channel, since V1 will affect input V1A- Input/Clean, V1B isn't used, V2A-B are the 2nd gain stage for channel 2 or lead, V3A is the 3rd gain stage for lead, V3B is the cathode follower? V4A is the fx send, V4B is fx return and V5 is the phase inverter.
I'm sure someone will chime in and correct this.

V1A-input /clean
V1B - Not used
V2A - 2nd Gain Stage
V2B - 3rd Gain Stage
V3A - 4th Gain Stage
V3B - Cathode Follower, which they state as the 5th Gain stage (it isn't)
V4A - FX Send
V4B - FX Return
V5 - Phase Inverter

2) Yes the clean is usually louder than the modern channel, just back off the master a bit to match volumes.

3) Usually sudden tone changes are more power tube related, loss of highs, lows and mids, and changes in volume levels, since pre's last much longer than power tubes.

4) 2 channel recs don't have much sizzle, you can change pre's and experiment, and twist some tone knobs until you get the sizzle you are seeking.
EL34's are not original in 2 channel triple recs, those 442's are some good tubes, might be old and crusty by now, 6L6 are stock, SPAX7a's aren't stock, 5U4G's are stock.

This board is awesome and there is PLENTY of help if you need it. I'm still learning!

If you really want to know the exact date of your amp, take it out of the chassis, the date is written inside, the revision letter is written on the circuit board with the big blue caps in gold print, use a flashlight, look don't touch! might be a rev f or g, depends on if it has a hardwired power cord and the configuration of the speaker outputs. If it has a detachable power cord, it's a rev G.
90' Mark III Coliseum blue stripe
95 Triple RevG
96' Triple RevF (2)
04' Recto 4x12
07' Recto 4x12-EVM12L's
09' Mills (2)-4X12-V30
96' Explorer
03' Faded V
13' Government V

Tone1026
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Posts: 125
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Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by Tone1026 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:48 pm

took one of those el34's out and saw a scorch mark... funny thing is, no difference in glow with that tube when i was playing through it... is there a way to post pics?

mesaboogie6L6
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Location: Dayton Ohio

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by mesaboogie6L6 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:55 pm

I upload my pics to photobucket it's free, then copy the image code and paste in the reply area. Then you can preview it to make sure it works.

The amount of glow really doesn't mean much.
90' Mark III Coliseum blue stripe
95 Triple RevG
96' Triple RevF (2)
04' Recto 4x12
07' Recto 4x12-EVM12L's
09' Mills (2)-4X12-V30
96' Explorer
03' Faded V
13' Government V

mesaboogie6L6
Mark III
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:03 pm
Location: Dayton Ohio

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by mesaboogie6L6 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:58 pm

You don't wait for your strings to break before you change them do you? Same goes for power tubes, as soon as the tone suffers, it's time for a change. I don't care how long someone tells me they have had tubes in their amp, if they play it for long periods of time and at loud volume levels, it's only a matter of time, doesn't matter where your tubes are from or who made them.
90' Mark III Coliseum blue stripe
95 Triple RevG
96' Triple RevF (2)
04' Recto 4x12
07' Recto 4x12-EVM12L's
09' Mills (2)-4X12-V30
96' Explorer
03' Faded V
13' Government V

Tone1026
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Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by Tone1026 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:04 pm

is the scorch evidence that the tube has shorted, or is failing? the amp was made in 1997 and has "fg" marked on the board. detachable chord.

mesaboogie6L6
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Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:03 pm
Location: Dayton Ohio

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by mesaboogie6L6 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:27 pm

Sounds like you have a rev G.

It could be on it's way out, tubes usually give signs before they fail, sometimes they will short and be fine for a while, scorch marks are usually just wear marks from the heat, best to just retube for reliability, don't take a chance of a tube blowing and possibly taking a grid resistor out with it, since those tubes are more than likely original 442's Svetlana's which are no longer made.

The other guitarist in my band has a 2 channel triple rev G also, sounds great, made in 97'.
90' Mark III Coliseum blue stripe
95 Triple RevG
96' Triple RevF (2)
04' Recto 4x12
07' Recto 4x12-EVM12L's
09' Mills (2)-4X12-V30
96' Explorer
03' Faded V
13' Government V

Tone1026
Mark II
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by Tone1026 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:40 pm

there is an inexpensive JJ set, would that be a good set to put in, should i consider high gain pre amp tubes to get better direct distortion tone? I mostly use my fx processor for my distortion, so its not that big a deal.. didn't know if high gain preamp tubes would negatively effect my clean tone...

Also, does sending a distorted signal through the clean channel hurt that channel?

Thanks for the help!

mesaboogie6L6
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Posts: 286
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Location: Dayton Ohio

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by mesaboogie6L6 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:07 pm

If you want high gain, then get the high gain retube kit, if not then just get the standard preamps. I have the high gain kit with the integreated quad of KT88/66 in my 2 channel dual rec. JJ 6l6's are good tubes, I've used them plenty of times with no problems and great tone.

High gain tubes won't negatively affect your clean tone that much, rectifiers don't have the best clean tone to begin with, but it's still good.

Sending a distorted signal through the clean channel won't hurt the channel at all and is perfectly ok.

If you use processer's for distortion then you might not need the high gain kit and might save you a few bucks too. I don't use processer's for distortion mainly because I would never be happy with it, that's just me though.

Bob and Eddie and the crew at Eurotubes know their stuff and will help you if you have any questions, the customer service is tops, and shipping is fast fast fast, (if that's who you are ordering from that is).

When and if you finally decide on 6L6's, don't forget to change the bias switch on the back of your amp from EL34 to 6L6. Might be a good idea to get rectifier tubes while you are at it too, that way all your tubes are new and you don't have to worry about it. Just get a kit with the preamp gain you want with 6l6's and rec tubes.
90' Mark III Coliseum blue stripe
95 Triple RevG
96' Triple RevF (2)
04' Recto 4x12
07' Recto 4x12-EVM12L's
09' Mills (2)-4X12-V30
96' Explorer
03' Faded V
13' Government V

Tone1026
Mark II
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by Tone1026 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:33 pm

heres a link any way.. img.. deal didnt work

http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Tone1 ... 3662458611

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screamingdaisy
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Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by screamingdaisy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:38 pm

Tone1026 wrote:Hey guys,
I have a few questions.
1) The 2 channel manual doesn't specify which pre amp tubes effect which channels, it only labels them in stages. Anybody know what tubes effect what? Not identical to the 3 channel is it?
2 channel Rectos are basically a single channel amp with some trick switching in the tone stack and power amplifier. They're basically all on all the time and the clean mode bypasses a couple of them.
2) I have noticed the the clean setting when "style select" is in "orange to modern" is the loudest of all is that normal? (with all the levels being set the same)
Modern mode bypasses the negative feedback loop... which makes the amp louder.
3) Is sudden tone changes pre amp tube related?
The negative feedback loop is in the power amp.
4) the gain on this thing doesn't seem to have much sizzle... normal?
It depends on what you call "sizzle". Dull tone with a lack of top end sizzle could be worn out power tubes. Could also be that your presence is set too low.
Ignore the hype and trust your ears. Play more, buy less = better tone.

mesaboogie6L6
Mark III
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:03 pm
Location: Dayton Ohio

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by mesaboogie6L6 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:51 pm

Tone1026 wrote:heres a link any way.. img.. deal didnt work

http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Tone1 ... 3662458611
Yep, you had a tube arcing there, might of been a bad connection and maybe the tube wasn't seated properly, and more than likely the tube is ready to go, hopefully it didn't do too much damage, replacing a socket isn't hard for a tech to do, as long as the tube lights up it should be ok.

When replacing tubes, it's a good idea to clean ALL the sockets by spraying the pins with contact cleaner and inserting the tubes into the socket a few times.

A retube would be a good idea...............
90' Mark III Coliseum blue stripe
95 Triple RevG
96' Triple RevF (2)
04' Recto 4x12
07' Recto 4x12-EVM12L's
09' Mills (2)-4X12-V30
96' Explorer
03' Faded V
13' Government V

Tone1026
Mark II
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: 2 Channel Triple rec questions

Post by Tone1026 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:57 pm

Tube lights up, hopefully I don't have to replace the socket

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