Well guys, it's time for some more 6L6's, and I am wondering if there is a 'general' difference in tone between 6L6 bottle shapes. I know that the manufacture, materials, matching etc will have the most effect, but does whether it's a coke bottle, short bottle or regular bottle shape have any sort of bearing on the tone?
6L6 tube shapes
- Thread starter jutsin
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Timbre Wolf
Well-known member
My turn...
Vintage 6L6G (bulbous "ST" = shouldered tube style; I never thought they look anything like a Coke bottle) will flare up and die in any Mesa/Boogie amp that you put them in. Their max plate voltage is rated at 360V, not the 500+ volts you get from these amps.
The only ST-shaped 6L6 that you can use in your Mesa/Boogie amp is the current-production New Sensor "Tung-Sol 6L6G" which is really a 6L6GC.
- Thom
Vintage 6L6G (bulbous "ST" = shouldered tube style; I never thought they look anything like a Coke bottle) will flare up and die in any Mesa/Boogie amp that you put them in. Their max plate voltage is rated at 360V, not the 500+ volts you get from these amps.
The only ST-shaped 6L6 that you can use in your Mesa/Boogie amp is the current-production New Sensor "Tung-Sol 6L6G" which is really a 6L6GC.
- Thom
94Tremoverb
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To be really dry about it...
The tube shape by itself has *no* effect on performance whatever - it's simply a bottle that keeps the air out. The functional parts of the tube are all inside the grey plate structure, and there is nothing - a pretty good vacuum - between the two.
*But* the tube shape (along with other features that by themselves don't affect the tube electrically, such as the color of the base) is a very good indicator of the age or manufacturer of the tube, which certainly does have a very big effect on performance. So it's useful to be able to recognise tubes from their appearance.
For example, a 1990s Chinese 6L6 may have the same general shape as a 1940s American one, but they are not the same tube at all... and in fact, the Chinese one will work fine in modern amps whereas the US one probably won't, because the Chinese one is a 6L6GC whereas the old one is a 6L6G or a GA, with lower voltage ratings as Timbre Wolf said.
Still, it is fun to notice that straighter, taller, skinnier tubes *do* tend to be brighter and skinnier sounding, and wider chunkier ones tend to sound fat and chunky too
. (But it's coincidence.)
The tube shape by itself has *no* effect on performance whatever - it's simply a bottle that keeps the air out. The functional parts of the tube are all inside the grey plate structure, and there is nothing - a pretty good vacuum - between the two.
*But* the tube shape (along with other features that by themselves don't affect the tube electrically, such as the color of the base) is a very good indicator of the age or manufacturer of the tube, which certainly does have a very big effect on performance. So it's useful to be able to recognise tubes from their appearance.
For example, a 1990s Chinese 6L6 may have the same general shape as a 1940s American one, but they are not the same tube at all... and in fact, the Chinese one will work fine in modern amps whereas the US one probably won't, because the Chinese one is a 6L6GC whereas the old one is a 6L6G or a GA, with lower voltage ratings as Timbre Wolf said.
Still, it is fun to notice that straighter, taller, skinnier tubes *do* tend to be brighter and skinnier sounding, and wider chunkier ones tend to sound fat and chunky too
. (But it's coincidence.)212Mavguy
Well-known member
...and I 'm glad that Mesa does not make amps that can use earlier 6l6 types... I'd never be able to afford my vintage tube collection if today's mass produced amps for 6l6gc were made to voltage specs for earliest 6l6. ...maybe the tweed settings on some models might not kill 'em.
Once I stuck a 6l6 metal tube in my Frank-en-Champ and it was amazing, had the singing violin sustain thang going on, very sweet and nice, I suspect that the oldest metal 6l6's can be a real tonal treasure trove in a lower b+ voltage boutique amp.
Had a little problem, I lightly touched that tube while power was on and got the piss shocked out of me. I had the socket wired to take el34 as well as 6l6, and 6l6 metal tubes ground the metal envelope to pin 1, no need to ground a glass envelope, pin 1 and 8 need to be connected to each other within the socket to run el34 or 6550. I got a nice li'l zap at somewhere around 376 volts DC.
That amp now runs a really hot home fried turret board, and I'm now getting over 420 volts in the b+ in it. Glad I had my stupidity episode before the latest rebuild. And yes, that amp sounds amazing running a Siemens el34 through it, as well as a couple of vintage 5881 Tung Sols that have a slightly lower current draw than the rest of the batch, no redplating. Not too many of my 6v6's look happy in that amp, they red stripe, but I have an old Brimar 6v6 that works perfectly in that little tube hell pit.
There are some secret weapon 6l6-ish in power types for the few that don't follow the herd, want their own signature tones and have strong tech skills or convenient/great tech availability. 6bg6ga, 807, and el38 come to mind immediately. All require either rewired sockets or custom adaptors, and are most definitely worth the effort in the tones these tubes provide. Within an adaptor socket, the 807 had all of the 6v6 upper mids and top end with what felt like significantly more volume, like a 6v6 pumped up on steroids, with lots of glass in the crunch. The 6bg6ga in an adaptor socket with a plate cap sound just godly, an adventure back in time for some amazing tones, the Sylvania ones are very similar in tones to their now uber-spendy/onobtanium 6l6gc that Mesa used to use... hugely fat, musical, yet nimble and articulate.
Power tubes with plate caps tend to be rated for higher plate voltages in vintage designs. Another, the el38 Mullard is very similar to the el37, the el38 sounds smoother, in a gorgeous way, fatter than el34, more like kt66 and is available for about one fifth to one eighth the price, run them in an el34 socket with a wire going to the plate cap from pin 3. Watch out for excessive screen voltage with this tube in 6l6-ish circuits.
These alternate tubes would work best in a situation where a Mesa amp was old enough to be out of warranty and not the only amp a player owns...with a bias mod installed to boot. Similar in power range to 6l6/el34, much better builds, much better and yet affordable tones.
Once I stuck a 6l6 metal tube in my Frank-en-Champ and it was amazing, had the singing violin sustain thang going on, very sweet and nice, I suspect that the oldest metal 6l6's can be a real tonal treasure trove in a lower b+ voltage boutique amp.
Had a little problem, I lightly touched that tube while power was on and got the piss shocked out of me. I had the socket wired to take el34 as well as 6l6, and 6l6 metal tubes ground the metal envelope to pin 1, no need to ground a glass envelope, pin 1 and 8 need to be connected to each other within the socket to run el34 or 6550. I got a nice li'l zap at somewhere around 376 volts DC.
That amp now runs a really hot home fried turret board, and I'm now getting over 420 volts in the b+ in it. Glad I had my stupidity episode before the latest rebuild. And yes, that amp sounds amazing running a Siemens el34 through it, as well as a couple of vintage 5881 Tung Sols that have a slightly lower current draw than the rest of the batch, no redplating. Not too many of my 6v6's look happy in that amp, they red stripe, but I have an old Brimar 6v6 that works perfectly in that little tube hell pit.
There are some secret weapon 6l6-ish in power types for the few that don't follow the herd, want their own signature tones and have strong tech skills or convenient/great tech availability. 6bg6ga, 807, and el38 come to mind immediately. All require either rewired sockets or custom adaptors, and are most definitely worth the effort in the tones these tubes provide. Within an adaptor socket, the 807 had all of the 6v6 upper mids and top end with what felt like significantly more volume, like a 6v6 pumped up on steroids, with lots of glass in the crunch. The 6bg6ga in an adaptor socket with a plate cap sound just godly, an adventure back in time for some amazing tones, the Sylvania ones are very similar in tones to their now uber-spendy/onobtanium 6l6gc that Mesa used to use... hugely fat, musical, yet nimble and articulate.
Power tubes with plate caps tend to be rated for higher plate voltages in vintage designs. Another, the el38 Mullard is very similar to the el37, the el38 sounds smoother, in a gorgeous way, fatter than el34, more like kt66 and is available for about one fifth to one eighth the price, run them in an el34 socket with a wire going to the plate cap from pin 3. Watch out for excessive screen voltage with this tube in 6l6-ish circuits.
These alternate tubes would work best in a situation where a Mesa amp was old enough to be out of warranty and not the only amp a player owns...with a bias mod installed to boot. Similar in power range to 6l6/el34, much better builds, much better and yet affordable tones.
Timbre Wolf
Well-known member
Such a wealth of information! Thanks, Mav!
Have you ever used a Tung-Sol 6098?
376 v DC? :shock: Yowzzzzzaa!
- Thom
Have you ever used a Tung-Sol 6098?
376 v DC? :shock: Yowzzzzzaa!
- Thom
212Mavguy said:
212Mavguy
Well-known member
Hi Thom,
No, never ran the TS 6098, but do have a few pairs of 6384, the Bendix version of that tube, and the boutique amp you cued me about a while back that runs them. I played through it yesterday in a double rig slaved from the 2/12 Mav into a 2/15 with JBL's in it, was drooling pretty hard all over myself. The 6098 is supposed to sound even better than their vintage 5881. But I think that it's pretty hard to find an output tube to the quality of sonics delivered by the Bendix 6094 or 6384 output tubes. They are that good.
Yeah, I'm a pretty crappy player anyway and after that shock I could not put together any kind of lead at all, I was done for the night after that. :roll:
No, never ran the TS 6098, but do have a few pairs of 6384, the Bendix version of that tube, and the boutique amp you cued me about a while back that runs them. I played through it yesterday in a double rig slaved from the 2/12 Mav into a 2/15 with JBL's in it, was drooling pretty hard all over myself. The 6098 is supposed to sound even better than their vintage 5881. But I think that it's pretty hard to find an output tube to the quality of sonics delivered by the Bendix 6094 or 6384 output tubes. They are that good.
Yeah, I'm a pretty crappy player anyway and after that shock I could not put together any kind of lead at all, I was done for the night after that. :roll:
Timbre Wolf
Well-known member
Since we're throwing around fancy power tube numbers, today I installed a wonderful pair of Swedish Standard 5S2D tubes in my Carr Slant 6V, and thoroughly enjoyed their liveliness and clarity. Played for hours!
Maybe I should have put in my Bendix 5992 in the other pair, but I couldn't kick out my beloved Ken-Rad 6V6G pair. :mrgreen:
Cheers!!
- Thom
Maybe I should have put in my Bendix 5992 in the other pair, but I couldn't kick out my beloved Ken-Rad 6V6G pair. :mrgreen:
Cheers!!
- Thom
212Mavguy
Well-known member
Niiiiiiiiiice!
