The "New" Mesa preamp tubes

So I've been doing some reading up on preamp tubes as I'm ready to replace them in my DR. I read about the differences with the Chinese vs. the Russian preamp tubes in the cathode follower position, the sp12ax7, etc.

I called Mesa yesterday and spoke with Michael to order new tubes. I asked him about the sp12ax7 for V1 and the different tubes for the cathode follower positions. He told me that there is no need to go with the sp12ax7 in the V1 position on a DR, and that they are using "newer" Sovtek 12ax7's that are apparently better than both the old Chinese and Russian tubes they used previously. He told me that there was no need to put different tubes in different positions, and to just use their Sovteks in all preamp positions, so I went ahead and ordered 5 for my DR.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these new Sovteks. They didn't mention anything about Mesa branded JJ's and those are not listed on their website. My '06 Roadster sounds great with the stock preamp tubes and I was trying to duplicate that in my DR, but it sounds like Mesa has come full circle and is right back with the Sovtek 12ax7's. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

A good friend of mine works at a mesa dealer and he was told the new tubes are Relabeled JJs. I have them in my amp and they sound great and no problem in different slots. My friend also mentioned that the whole relabeling thing is very 'hush hush'. I wonder if they are trying to cover up the relabeling as much as possible....

Long story short though - the new tubes sound great whatever brand they are!

Huh, very interesting. I specifically asked him who manufactured them and he told me Sovtek. I have JJ's in there now and was looking to get away from them. I've had two go bad on me in a relatively short amount of time/usage and they seem to make the entire amp sound like there is a blanket over it. I know a lot of people prefer the JJ's, they just haven't been my cup of tea. I'm sure the Mesa JJ's (if that is what they are) will at least be more reliable than what I have experienced.

Ya, in their website the picture of the 12ax7 is different so there most be a new tube and it looks like a JJ to me ... (don't trust me though ... :? )

FWIW, if the new tubes are JJs then they are the best sounding JJs i've heard...

I have Russian 1's and Russian 2's in my Boogies, they look exactly the same except a couple of the Russian 2's have different getters to the 1's and even the other 2's ????? I saw somewhere that they may be Tesla reissues. You can tell if they're JJ's or not very easily, the internals are completely different, anybody got any pics ?

I'll have to compare the new ones when they arrive (probably in the next couple of days) to my old JJ's. I'll let you know what I find....

Please do let us know, G.I.G.!

I bought the SPAX7(ECC 83s) the " special requirement ax7 from mesa .
They are undoubtly sovteks , probably 2nd checked for noise / microphonics (ect)
and they put heat shrink tube over them . I am sure that will help
stop most ringing or noise , but anyone can heat shrink an ax7 .
Yet I must say since I last checked it appears they are using JJ 12AX7s :?

http://mesa.stores.yahoo.net/12axtes.html

http://www.newtube.com/products/10/12AX7-S-ECC83-JJ-Tesla.htm

http://mesa.stores.yahoo.net/spax7.html

/cheers

Well I just received my 12ax7's from Mesa this morning. I compared the "new" Mesa preamp tubes to both an old JJ I had laying around and a Sovtek. The "new" 12ax7's are undoubtedly JJ's. I compared all three side by side, and everything is exactly the same on the new Mesa tubes and the JJ. What MusicManJP6 mentioned about it being "hush hush" is apparently true, because I specifically asked Michael at Mesa/Boogie he said that they were Sovteks.

Also, Michael told me that I did not need the SP12ax7 in V1 for my DR and that I did not need a specific tube in that position. Can anyone else confirm this? I remember Bob from Eurotubes telling me that I need a special "balanced" tube for the V1 position so I've heard conflicting stories. Any thoughts???

Another update....

I just called the Mesa Hollywood store to confirm that I didn't need a special tube for V1 in my DR, and he said that was correct. Also, I asked him point blank if these were JJ's or Sovteks. He kind of hesitated and said that they're not supposed to be outwardly telling people that they are JJ's, but that yes, they are indeed JJ's. Very interesting....

I figured my informant was 'in the know', but it's good to know that they are indeed JJ's from Mesa themselves... Great sounding tube nonetheless... at least in my Stiletto - and i definitely loved them in my F-30. They did not sound too good in my Rectoverb though so it's surprising that they are the EXACT same tube...

For you Stiletto owners - the new Mesas are great, but try a Tung Sol in V1. It makes a world of difference in the harshness and usable treble and presence range. Very smooth tube with just as much gain as the JJs.

MusicManJP6 said:

They did not sound too good in my Rectoverb though so it's surprising that they are the EXACT same tube...

Click to expand...

It's funny you mention that, because I was not a big fan of the JJ preamp tubes in my DR, and yet that is what I am replacing them with. I had two preamp tubes go bad on me out of a batch of JJ preamp tubes, so I did not think that their reliability was where it needed to be. I think that Mesa does a much better job of screening tubes than Bob at Eurotubes (which is where I bought the bad ones from) so I will go into this tube change optimistically. I will also be using the "Winged C's" this go around in the power amp section instead of the JJ power amp tubes, which I think will also improve my results.

FWIW, the guy at the Mesa Hollywood store said they are still using the Chinese 6L6's and have only moved to the JJ's for the 12ax7's.

There is a video that is fun to watch on the mesa website . It shows them striking the tubes.
I stopped using JJ's ax7s as the failure rate is about 50% if not worse , as far as PRE-AMP tubes .
Mesa strikes them 2xs so they are probably throwing over half away . So buying those from mesa
may well be worth it .

LerxstLee said:

So buying those from mesa
may well be worth it.

Click to expand...

I sure hope so. According to the guy I talked to at the M/B Hollywood store, reliability is one of the reasons for moving away from the Chinese tubes in the preamp positions, over to the JJ's. As I had mentioned above, I had a little bad luck with JJ preamp tubes so I'm hoping this go around will prove to be better.

Ok, Ive got Q's for a couple of posts...

What is the mesa JJ ax7 called now?

What Tung Sol are you guys using for V1?

I have nothing but problems with the JJ 83's. But i like the sound. Im not a fan of the JJ power tubes either. But I have a set currently. Has anyone noticed the price of the SED's have nearly doubled lately? I was paying 35 bucks a pair for years and now they are almost $50 a pair. This drove me to the JJ's. Why the price hike?

Hey guys

Wow. I paid $50 for a pair of telefunken smooth plate tubes and $45 a pair for a pair of mullards. I don't think i have the heart to pay that for new production crap!

NWOFORLIF

droptrd said:

Ok, Ive got Q's for a couple of posts...

What is the mesa JJ ax7 called now?

What Tung Sol are you guys using for V1?

I have nothing but problems with the JJ 83's. But i like the sound. Im not a fan of the JJ power tubes either. But I have a set currently. Has anyone noticed the price of the SED's have nearly doubled lately? I was paying 35 bucks a pair for years and now they are almost $50 a pair. This drove me to the JJ's. Why the price hike?

Click to expand...

MusicManJP6 said:

I figured my informant was 'in the know', but it's good to know that they are indeed JJ's from Mesa themselves... Great sounding tube nonetheless... at least in my Stiletto - and i definitely loved them in my F-30. They did not sound too good in my Rectoverb though so it's surprising that they are the EXACT same tube...

Click to expand...

This doesn't surprise me. JJ ECC83/83S sound just fine to really good in my Marks, but not great in either the Rec Pre I used to have or in my buddy's Roadster.

This is very interesting. The maximum heater to cathode voltage of the JJ 12AX7 is 180VDC, but the cathode follower and FX send stages in a Dual Rectifer present cathode voltages well over 200VDC.

This is very interesting. The maximum heater to cathode voltage of the JJ 12AX7 is 180VDC, but the cathode follower and FX send stages in a Dual Rectifer present cathode voltages well over 200VDC.

Click to expand...

This is actually quite common. To get around this voltage rating, most manufacturers "float" the filament windings. That means neither end of the winding is directly connected to ground, so the voltage potential between cathode and heater ends up being much less than 180 volts.