The Boogie Board

Discussion Forum for Mesa Boogie Products
It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:12 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Help with tubes Roadster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:48 am 
Offline
Mark I

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:52 pm
Posts: 24
Hello. I plan to retube my Roadster. I saw some retube sets on http://www.rototubes.com/Roadster-Trem-O-Verb/
I know that Roadster have fixed bias and they recomend Mesa tubes for Mesa amps. Do i need any additional moding or i can just install some of this sets and go play.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:48 am 
Offline
Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2568
Location: North Carolina
From what I learned thus far with the Roadster.

V3 (tone stack triode) V5 (FX loop send) are cathode follower circuits. Either use Mesa (selected JJ tubes) or Chinese (have nickel plated clips on the plates). Russian made tubes will fail prematurely in the Cathode Follower circuits due to the voltage differential between the heater and cathode. An alternate is the JAN/GE 5751 which is supposed to be compliant with cathode follower circuits.

Somehow I believe that Mesa also selects their preamp tubes for matched triodes, otherwise there would be an out of balance signal to the power section (matched triodes are better served with Class A/B power amps, it probably does not matter much with the Simul Class circuits of the Mark Series amps but it does not hurt to used matched triode tubes there either).

I honestly prefer the Mesa tubes in the Roadster. I love the way the Mesa power tubes sound in this amp when saturated. They come close to the SED=C=6L6GC that I have used in the Mark V. I have experimented with EH EL34, TAD6L6GC STR, SED =C=, and KT77 (all of which I specifically ordered for my Mark V ) The TAD6L6GC-STR sounded great as well as the EH34's. I have not tried the newer set of SED =C= 6L6GC or the EL34 (in use with my RA100). I prefer the tone of the Ruby (Mesa Branded STR440 in the Roadster). Since I am not using the SED =C= 6L6GC at the moment (loaded the KT77 in the Mark V) I should give them a shot in the Roadster. I have also tried some of the different preamp tubes (EH, Tung Sol, Mullard reissue, Mullard CV4004, Preferred series 7025, and vintage Mesa Chinese tubes (which I think sound the best overall in my other amps). The Roadster seems to benefit tone wise with the Mesa branded JJ 12ax7a tubes. I did not notice much difference in gain structure, but I did notice more brightness with the Mullard reissue and a Sovtek LPS in V6. However, it became apparent that the tone I liked with the stock tubes was not the same with the different preamp tubes. My experience with the Mark V is quite the opposite, I did not like the Mesa JJ tubes, actually it is a fault with the power section as I believe it is running a much hotter bias than it should ( I have red plated many of the commonly bought tubes except for SED or Gold Lion KT77 ( I ordered them specifically for a fixed hot bias amp and so far no issues). Roadster and rest of the DR family, they run on the cold side as I recall.

The weak link is the rectifier tubes, not many available. I did try a NOS JAN 5U4G but it was a dud. I normally use either Mesa or EH 5U4G (same tube). I believe the Roadster would sound great with many of the 6L6GC tubes available since it has a moderate bias and does not run as hot as the Mark V.

If you were considering a different tube than a standard EL34, 6CA7 had some interesting character too them. (I would avoid the JJ 6CA7, many have had great success with the EH 6CA7). Also you can run the EL34B (lower bass response). As far as EL34 are concerned, the SED =C= EL34 are tops but much higher cost. Gold Lion KT77 are also a big expense. I like the EL34 (SED) the best.

The Svetlana (not true SED or Sevetlana from St Petersburg) are not too bad either (made by Reflektor, also makes Tung Sol, Sovtek, Mullard, etc...) I have been running them in my Mark IV for the past 2 years. Close but not close enough to the SED =C= tube. Tung Sol 7581 are also killer tubes (has more complex harmonics than the Svetlana). I have a quad of those, wonder what they would sound like in the Roadster ?

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:20 am 
Offline
Mark I

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:52 pm
Posts: 24
Thank you for your reply. It was very helpfull for choosing type of tubes for me. My concern is can i put any tubes not only Mesa branded in my Roadster and just use it or non mesa tubes need some kind of biasing or moding the amp.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:04 am 
Offline
Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2568
Location: North Carolina
If your amp is under warranty, best to use Mesa tubes. I have experimented with some of the preamp tubes and power tubes just briefly so I could compare the effect on tone. Tung Sol in V1 will tend to brighten up the amp as well as a Mullard Reissue. I did not care for the change in tone. Unfortunately, most of the power tubes I have available were ordered specifically for the Mark V so they were not as defined in the Roadster or RA100.

If you are not concerned about warranty and are really eager to experiment with different tubes, the Roadster is more forgiving than the Mark V due to a cooler bias. Typical power tubes will work well. When you order tubes, some places allow you to specify what tubes the amp will be installed in, and if it is a combo or not. Groove tubes with gain factor ranging from 4 to 7 are acceptable. The lower the number the earlier the distortion would be. Some tubes vendors rate them in terms of low, medium or high distortion levels, stay in the middle range and indicate your amp make and model. Not sure if specifying a Combo will make much of a difference but I assume they will be more stable in the mechanical aspects (less vibration of the internals). I think the next time I order tubes I will indicate a combo amp. I have gotten some noisy tubes in the past, vibrations were not noticeable at higher volume but at low volume the tubes sing (vibrate and rattle, this is more prone for EL34 and associated narrow bottle tubes that are similar )

There are tubes that hold up better than others. TAD are not bad at all, SED expensive but hold up well, Gold Lion are good but cost more than the SED tubes. Some of the Reflektor branded tubes (Tung Sol, EH, Sovtek, Mullards, and Svetlana) are also good. It can be hit or miss when it comes to tubes and quality. Generally using a source that selects tubes and sorts them for quality of sound and mechanical stability (Mesa and Groove Tubes). Also finding a good source for a good matched duet or quad. I generally use "the Tube Store" or "tube Depot" for the other brands of tubes. Just my opinion and I will restate it, I found the Mesa tubes to have the best overall sound quality in the Roadster. The Complex harmonics are present when saturated in CH3 and CH4. So my Roadster will only get Mesa tubes. As for preamp tubes, I believe the Mesa 12ax7 are match triodes. If you decide to use other brands, it should be required to get a matched triode for the PI tube (V6). Having all of the preamp tubes with matched triodes would not hurt (except your pocket book). You could probably use most common tubes available for V1, V2, V4, V6. However Russian tubes will fail in V3 and V5 due to cathode follower circuits (JJ or Chinese Shuguang {with additional chrome like clips on the plates}). If you get a bad tube and something happens to the amp, your warranty will not cover you unless it is a Mesa tube (not sure about GT).

You do not need to modify anything in the amp at all. No bias change needed as long as you stay in the mid range. Always good if the resource you are using will match the tube for the amp requirements based on its bias data they keep on hand.

A reminder on the Rectifier tubes, stick with the exact same type tube. 5U4GB. Mesa or EH have these available.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:00 pm 
Offline
Single Recto

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:16 am
Posts: 1258
I really love the Winged C 6L6s in my Roadster head and Mark V head. I feel they are a slight upgrade over the stock 6L6s. However, as we all know, they have stopped making the Winged Cs. So the quest to to find a similar replacement for me


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:23 pm 
Offline
Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2568
Location: North Carolina
I have been searching quite a while for a suitable replacement for the =c= 6L6GC. What does come close is the Tung Sol 7581A (at least for the Mark V).
TAD 6L6GC-STR are a bit different but sound great. I actually liked those more in the Mark V than the SED =C= 6L6GC. What I did not like about them was the plastic base, the center guide pin can break off easily. If you get them, use a silver Sharpie to mark where the key on the center pin is on the side of the plastic base. Forget about the Svetlana tubes as those will not last long in the Mark V. For the Roadster no issue as the bias is not the same.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:54 pm 
Offline
Single Recto

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:16 am
Posts: 1258
bandit2013 wrote:
I have been searching quite a while for a suitable replacement for the =c= 6L6GC. What does come close is the Tung Sol 7581A (at least for the Mark V).
TAD 6L6GC-STR are a bit different but sound great. I actually liked those more in the Mark V than the SED =C= 6L6GC. What I did not like about them was the plastic base, the center guide pin can break off easily. If you get them, use a silver Sharpie to mark where the key on the center pin is on the side of the plastic base. Forget about the Svetlana tubes as those will not last long in the Mark V. For the Roadster no issue as the bias is not the same.


I would have thought the longevity issue was due to the fact that it's enclosed in a smaller head cabinet, as opposed to be a bigger one which may help ventilation


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:33 pm 
Offline
Mark I
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:02 pm
Posts: 22
Location: NYC
[quote="bandit2013"]

Just my opinion and I will restate it, I found the Mesa tubes to have the best overall sound quality in the Roadster. The Complex harmonics are present when saturated in CH3 and CH4. So my Roadster will only get Mesa tubes.

Hey Bandit2013,

You seem to know a lot when it comes to tubes and the Roadster. I recently blew a one of my power tubes in my Roadster. You say you only use the Mesa branded power tubes because you think they sound the best. I really love the sound of the amp and don't want to change anything but at the same time if there is a tube that would be better suit what music I play I'm open to using a different tube. I mostly play Metal and Progressive Metal. I love Metallica, Dream Theater, 80's metal as well as guitarist like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani. I was going to take your advice and just get a matched pair of the 6L6 STR 440's but if you have any thoughts otherwise I would greatly appreciate it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:47 pm 
Offline
Mark II

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:32 am
Posts: 85
Location: New Jersey, USA
I would think that replacing your power tubes with the same type would be best, unless you can find a compelling reason to change it up. They also really are the tubes the amp was designed around.

EL34s will give you more of a crunchy mid, high mid sound, and a tighter, less rounded bass response.

_________________
Guitars: Hamers, Heritages, G&L Legacies, EBMM Steve Morse, Carvin Bolt, Fender Tele
Amps: DC-5 1x12 w/Master Volume + EFX Mods, Maverick 2x12


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:57 pm 
Offline
Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2568
Location: North Carolina
Sorry for not noticing this....
Thing to take into account is the plate voltage of the amp. Not all Mesa's are operating at the same plate voltage and thus each model will have a specific bias for the plate voltage. Not exactly sure where the roadster stacks up with the Mark series amps or others in that regard. Depends on the power tube arrangement if it is a full Class A/B (all Rectifier amps I believe are this, not sure on the one's that use the EL84) Some Mark amps use the Simul-Class circuit and a select few run the full Class A/B. Each will have its on character.

I would suggest if you were to venture outside of the norm and select tubes that are different, indicate to the vendor what amp they will be used in so they can at least select a tube that will perform best when they are performance matched. The Ruby MSTR which are the same as the Mesa STR440 do have a slight different tone to them. May be due to the selectin process. I actually like them just as much if not a bit more but it depends on what amp I have them in. However, once you change V1 in your amp (Roadster is almost a necessity to do so) the bottom end and lower mid gain character of the Mesa tubes is a bit reduced. There may not be much to change in terms of tubes that the Roadster will respond well due to the cathode follower driven tone stack.

Only time I really noticed much of a change was using a JAN/GE 5751 in V2 (this tube does not share both triodes with all channels one half is used for the CH1 and CH2 and the other CH3 and CH4. V1 needs to have a good gain characteristic as well as V2 but the frequency response of the tubes will matter. Tube rolling has not been as much fun in the Roadster as it is in the Mark V. Other than the usual Tung Sol in V1, there is not much out there to experiment with due to the cathode follower V3 that drives the tone stack late. Not much else I can think of on the Roadster... How to get there from where you are at is or may be difficult. In short you have options for V1 and V2 for tone and character shaping and that is basically it except for the PI tube V6 and of course the power tubes. Power tubes with an early distortion characteristic may not be as desirable as you may think. I typically find that less is better than more, you can only distort the signal so much before it becomes mud. I would prefer a bit of mud verses brittle ice pick.

There may be some power tubes that would be killer. Tung Sol 7581 sounded great but I had already spent most of the tube life in the Mark V before trying them. I have read somewhere in the forums on the Mesa 5881 tubes. I have not tried them so hard to relate how they would sound in the Roadster. The SED =c= were kick ass tubes but harder to get those now. Also a quad of 6CA7 would be interesting to hear, I need to get a set to find out. My try the EHX version as I had the JJ versions and they were incredible in the Mark V but crapped out in too short of time (2 seeks, lost one tube due to open circuit issue internal that was intermittent ). Some do like the JJ EL34L as well.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:08 pm 
Offline
Mark I
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:02 pm
Posts: 22
Location: NYC
Bandit2013,

Thanks for the info about my tube options. Looks like I have a little research to do before I get some new tubes. In the meantime I decided to use some tubes from my Road king and may have messed something up. While I was waiting to get some new tubes I pulled the 4 6L6's from my much newer Road king II. The Roadster sounded so good with the newer tubes I decided to swap the 6 12AX7's as well. I follow the tube charts in the manuals but when I powered up my Roadster things sounded really bad. Channel 1 sounded fine but when I switched to channel 4 it had no gain. It sounded like an overdrive pedal. Then when I switched it back to channel 1 there was barely any volume at all. So I decided to swap back the original 6 12AX7's but there was no change. I double checked to make sure the tubes were seated properly. I really don't understand what I could have done. Any thoughts how to correct this would be greatly appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:00 pm 
Offline
Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2568
Location: North Carolina
The Road King II has the same tube assignment as the Roadster. Not sure what would be causing the lack of gain or other issue. Typically if it only effects CH4 and CH3, it may be V3 but it can be V2 as that tube circuit is where the signal splits for the high gain channels and the low gain channels. Also check your FX send level in case you moved it to a negative setting if you are using the FX loop and master volume control. That gets me every time.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:21 pm 
Offline
Mark I
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:02 pm
Posts: 22
Location: NYC
bandit2013 wrote:
The Road King II has the same tube assignment as the Roadster. Not sure what would be causing the lack of gain or other issue. Typically if it only effects CH4 and CH3, it may be V3 but it can be V2 as that tube circuit is where the signal splits for the high gain channels and the low gain channels. Also check your FX send level in case you moved it to a negative setting if you are using the FX loop and master volume control. That gets me every time.



I checked my FX send level but that wasn't it. It is definitely something I did when replacing the preamp tubes. I have to admit I've never replaced or swapped preamp tubes before so I must have done something wrong. I watched a mesa video on youtube about replacing tubes and it looks like they kept the amp on in stand by when replacing the preamp tubes. Is that the correct procedure? Seem odd to leave the amp on unless you were trying to find a bad tube.

Last night I did some more testing of the Roadster and found that CH 1 works fine but Ch's 2,3 and 4 seem to be missing gain. The weird thing is as soon as I come back to channel 1 after switching to one of the other Ch's then 1 also suffers from the same issues. A lack of gain and volume. This is exactly how it sounded with the Road King tubes in it.

Feeling discouraged I decided to forget about the Roadster and reinstall the original road king tubes back into my road king which have been sitting properly labeled in a box. The road king worked fine with these tubes before I removed them and installed them into the Roadster. Once they were swapped I was really sad to discover that my Road King is also suffering from issues now. Almost the same issues. The Road king sound weak and quite on all channels.

I can't understand what I'm doing wrong. None of the tube have been changed in either of the amps. The roadster is 9 years old and the Road king is 7. Could it be that the tube are just to old or that I damaged them by moving them? I was very careful to do them one at a time and line up the pins correctly. Is it possible to put them in wrong? Where as the power tubes have a little notch to slide in the preamp tubes didn't. I didn't remove the chassis from the amp so I had a difficult time with V1 being behind the transformer. I also had a difficult time putting those caps with the springs back on due to the lack of space and leverage. A couple of time when the cap when on I heard a little pop noise. I wonder if I could have damaged the tube from the force of pushing that cap down and turning it.

My plan is to buy a new set of tubes for my roadster but I would hate to get them and make the same mistake I already made when swapping the road king tubes. I would also hate to have to drag both of these amps to a tech just to install some new tubes if nothing else is wrong. I would think I should be able to do this myself. any thoughts on what I've said here would be greatly appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:05 pm 
Offline
Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2568
Location: North Carolina
One rule of thumb I would follow..... Never install any preamp or power tubes with the power switch applied and the amp power chord plugged in.

It is difficult enough to get the pins in the recessed holes let alone having some current available though the heater circuit. Sure it is only 6.3V but why risk it.
I always power down when I change tubes. It does not take long to power it back up again.

Your problem sounds like a cracked tube. The glass can get fractured even at the pins and once the vacuum is no longer present in the tube, the heater will not function properly and the tube will be dead. It may be possible you have a broken tube.

Did you remove the power tubes as well? Check that the rectifier tubes are in the correct position. Does it make a difference if the diode switch is set to diode or tube on the back?

Also, since the tubes face upward, the aluminum tube shields may leave metal debris around the tube socket. If so you can clean that away with compressed air as the fragments may be conductive if there is enough of them and may depend on humidity levels. I had this issue with an RA100 where the Hi/Lo channel was completely dead and the clean channel was not. Amp was not sounding all that great, Easy fix was the blow out all of the metal fragments around the preamp tubes and all was good after that. If the rubber o rings look silver, clean them off, If you had a silicon oil to wipe on them that will keep them from drying out and the metal flakes stuck to the o ring will be cleaned off, tube shields go on much easier with the o-ring clean and sort of lubed up.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:07 am 
Offline
Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2568
Location: North Carolina
Another observation, chance of tip damage is possible.
When changing tubes in the Roadster I generally keep the rest of the tube shields off when installing the V1 shield. It can be tricky at best but if there seems to be too much resistance on the spring it may be pinching the wick of the tube or tip. (not sure what to call the tube seal but that is where the tube gets vacuumed pumped (probably under inert gas such as nitrogen or argon). I used to work for a company that made glass type mercury filled thermometers and miniature thermostats and it was interesting how it was done. I would assume the valve manufacturing is similar in some respects.

When installing the long tube shield, look into the amp at an angle where you can almost see the tube. I go by feel on the spring tension. If it is difficult to compress I attempt to re-center the spring. Note: it is not mandatory to use the long tube shield on V1 as it is the same as the short one's but with an aluminum tube extension placed onto it. If you find it easier to use one of the short shields do so and put the long one on another tube. I had to do this with the Mark V before converting it to a combo unit. No room at all. Roadster has more available room to change tubes than other amps. To reach the other preamp tubes, you may need to pull a power tube or two. Just remember which is which when you put them back in.

Note when you take out the suspect preamp tubes, count the pins, there should be 9 pins on them. If you see a pin in the glass that is missing the part that is supposed to stick out it may be in the socket. It will take some time to get used to installing the shields and preamp tubes. Just take your time. You can just install the tubes without the shields in place and run the amp that way. The shields do not do much for noise interference. Older Mark amps did not have any shields on the tubes except for V1 and they hung down not upward (unless your Roadster is a combo). It is okay to reposition the amp for a better view or ease of access. Try laying the amp face down if that helps (do that on carpet or some padded surface to prevent nicking the tolex covering).


Note that the amp may have stored energy in the power supply capacitors. The potential for high voltage is possible. Always assume the internal components have a high voltage charge and try not to touch anything inside the chassis. (before removal of the chassis, unplug the power chord and place the stand by switch into the position it will be in when you are playing though the amp and let it sit for an hour or so as this will connect the power supply capacitors to the rest of the amplifier circuits to aid in discharging any stored energy. The power supply caps do have bleed off resistors intended to discharge the caps during shut down. Do not rely on them.

If this is too difficult, the best way to remove the chassis would be to unplug the amp and disconnect all external connections. Before disconnecting the reverb wires, take a picture of it with a digital camera or cell phone so you know what wire goes where as reference.
place the amp face down and loosen but do not remove the 4 bottom screws. Once the turn freely loosen the two bottom screws but leave them in the holes, on one side only (does not matter what side), loosen one of the rear screws. when it can be removed freely take hold of the metal strap and both screws should come out. The next step will require you to hold the chassis against the bottom of the amp, use one hand and place your thumb on the bottom of the shell and clamp down with your fingers on the chassis. With the other hand remove the other rear chassis screw. If both screws have been freed from the chassis nuts, they can be pulled out at the same time while pulling on the metal strap or you can remove each screw one at a time. Note: if you loosen one screw and remove it while the other is still tight, when you loosen the other screw the strap may swing out on you and rip the tolex covering. I generally keep the screws in place when loosening them. Once the screws have been removed, grab hold of both transformers (PS and OT) and carefully slide the chassis out. You may need to allow it to drop towards the top to do it as you do not want to slid the chassis along the bottom of the shell as there is a foil shield mounted on the shell. Place the amp chassis down on a flat surface with the tubes facing upward. This will give you full access to the preamp tubes, allow for inspection into the tube sockets to check for debris or broken pins missing from a tube.

You can remove the power tubes but it is not necessary. I keep mine in place (also my Roadster has the tube cage on it). If yours does not have the tube cage or you feel you need to remove them, mark the tube with a sharpie on the base where it came from for outer pair I place an "O" on the mesa label, on the inner pair I place an "I" or simple line. That way the pairs are marked. Also remember where the rectifier tubes are inserted and where they need to go when placing them back in. The Rectifier tubes should be installed in the sockets closest to the power cord. Refer to the tube chart in the manual or on the inside of the chassis. Rectifier tubes are marked as 5U4G. they look very similar to the power tubes but only have 4 pins and there are two elements you can see though the tube where as a power tube has a huge plate structure and is only one element or structure inside).

If you can manage replacing tubes without chassis removal that is the preferred method.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group