need advice on supposed amp damage during UPS delivery

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rabies

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Package was fully insured (dropped it off at Office Depot for UPS shipment).

Customer received the box and reported the following:

I found the following problems with the VM2266 I purchased from you. I want to give you a heads up before I do the rating in order to give you a chance to respond.

1. The packaging was poor. It was in a non-Marshall box, a Peavy amp box, and there was inadequate padding to protect the amp during shipping.

2. On inspection, perhaps due to the inadequate packing, one of the KT66 power tubes was halfway out of the socket and leaning sideways. Upon removing the back grill, and taking out the tube, I found that one pin was broken off stuck in the socket, and the center plastic insulator was broken off and stuck in the socket.

I corrected the situation by purchasing a pair of Shuguang KT66 tubes. Marshall recommends only using Shuguang tubes. The cost for the pair was $64 plus $14 shipping.

I told him I can open an insurance case and hopefully refund the tube fee for him. But I've never heard of this damage occurring. Is it believable to you? What should I do? I asked for photos. thx.
 
You usually remove the power stage tubes from the amp and wrapped them up separately when sending an amp.

When I shipped my chassis to MESA, they told me to remove the power stage tubes and wrap them up separately.

Regardless, I don't know why shipping services don't handle packages with care. Its like when you received a package from them, its has been thrown.

I remember when attending this university, UPS had flyers at the school, temporary part time jobs. My buddy took a position and it was loading UPS trucks. Anyway, not only the employees were students but also grocery cart pushing types. They weren't careful with the packages.
 
If you packed the amp yourself, lots of luck with a UPS damage claim.
Their story will be you did an inadequate packing job. Better get pics and lots of them, including outside of the box, inside of the box with the amp in it, many detailed pics of the damage. It's impossible to have too many pics, but they should be taken with a decent camera, not a phone.

Note:
Packing should be adequate to withstand a four foot fall. What that means is, after you finish packing, pick the box up, lift it at least to shoulder level, and heave the sucker as far as you can. If you feel the box can take that, then you did a good job.

Another note:
Yes, it's normal to remove tubes when shipping a naked chassis.
However, Mesa ships new amps with all tubes installed, albeit with each power tube shrouded in its own little red mesh condom, like a candle in an Italian restaurant.

Hints From Heloise:
I recently shipped a 4 x 10 Fender '59 Bassman clone to Puerto Rico with no damage. I shipped it upside-down, because the tubes hang from the chassis, and also because the chassis is in the top of the amp. Upside-down lowers the center of gravity, making tipping over less likely.

Good luck.
 
RR said:
I don't know why shipping services don't handle packages with care. Its like when you received a package from them, its has been thrown.

I witnessed this throwing of packages when I was at my local UPS terminal awaiting the return of my Mark IIC+ from a service at Petaluma. It was a "pucker up" moment, for sure. :shock:
 
That's true (hit and miss).

As far as drivers, its their judgement to leave a package if no one is home. On other forums, there's complaints how driver leaves a package and the receiver never got the package. It was probably stolen. Drivers figure if there's insurance, it will be taken care of.
 
UPS FedEx specs etc...

Items Must be doubles boxed.
The item itself must be protected adequately inside the inner box as well with at least 1" of protecting material.
This inner box must then be have at least 2" of protection around it when placed inside the Outer Box for the item to be considered packaged properly.

In any case this is what they say/ spec.
If there is no record (pics help) of it having been packed this way the say 'sorry, to bad, your claim is voided'.

RR said:
That's true (hit and miss).

As far as drivers, its their judgment to leave a package if no one is home. On other forums, there's complaints how driver leaves a package and the receiver never got the package. It was probably stolen. Drivers figure if there's insurance, it will be taken care of.

Not completely accurate.
FedEX and UPS drivers are held responsible for a package once it's in their hands.
Claims of loss or damage go against the driver.
It's up to the driver to inspect and then "accept" all packages that are loaded onto their trucks.
Once the sign off on them they are held responsible for each and every package.

Because of this responsibility, it's also up to them to leave it or not.

I have had packages labeled "no signature required" that drivers (both FedEx and UPS) have refused to leave due to the listed value of the contents.
The reason: they can be screwed over if it gets stolen as the money (cost of the item) comes out of their paycheck.

FedEx and UPS Corporate heads/ administrators are dickheads to both the consumer and their employee/ drivers.
They'll do anything to not see any money leave their pockets.

In fact many Drivers for FedEX are considered sub-contractors and not employees.
Which is one way FedEx can more easily charge the driver for the cost of damaged or missing packages.

In any case rabies it sounds like those tubes weren't packed properly.
As others have said they should have been removed and packaged separately to insure their safe arrival.
You may be SOL on this one.
 
gts said:
In any case rabies it sounds like those tubes weren't packed properly.
As others have said they should have been removed and packaged separately to insure their safe arrival.
You may be SOL on this one.

hmmm... Mesa ships with tubes installed and "socked". so how was it wrong? that's essentially the same I did (w/o breakage catching due to the socks not being there).

this is the 2nd damage incident with 2 amps I've shipped (one RK1 and one VM). Most of them seem to arrive ok, with the tubes installed.
 
rabies said:
hmmm... Mesa ships with tubes installed and "socked". so how was it wrong? that's essentially the same I did (w/o breakage catching due to the socks not being there).
How was it wrong?
That's a question you'll have to take up with UPS.
Good luck!
 
I would ask for proof of the damaged tubes (pics) and if true reimburse the cost of the replacements.

Unless you can prove the amp was packed to UPS specs $80 isn't worth the hassle IMO.

If the buyer can't prove the damage then it's your word against his. He could have broken the tube himself with rough handling.

Dom
 
domct203 said:
I would ask for proof of the damaged tubes (pics) and if true reimburse the cost of the replacements.

Unless you can prove the amp was packed to UPS specs $80 isn't worth the hassle IMO.

If the buyer can't prove the damage then it's your word against his. He could have broken the tube himself with rough handling.

Dom

It seemed sort of sketchy to me at first but he produced photos of the package unopened and opened, etc. I have no clue how one tube break like that only. Never seen that happen before.

I think I posted a pic of a ziploc bag of power tubes that were broken a while back (I was drunk and they were old tubes). It's pretty **** hard to break tubes, you have to throw the bag of tubes very hard for the glass to break.

anyways, I called UPS and they said they approved the claim, I need to fax back some paperwork they emailed me. I don't understand but didn't argue b/c they didn't contact the buyer yet...
 
rabies said:
... anyways, I called UPS and they said they approved the claim, ...
After that video clip making the TV news round recently of a UPS driver throw down the flat panel TV, of course they'll approve the claim. :lol:
 
I just shipped a H&K Switchblade that initially got sent to me and finally buyer received it and at least one power tube was reportedly broken. So he's apeshit b/c it took long to get a damaged amp. He opened a claim with eBay for full refund. Any advice? It's similar to the Marshall shipment in that only tubes were damaged. I offered him to buy tubes and bias (like the Marshall guy did) and he'd get refund from UPS claim or me. He's apeshit and irrational. thx.
Wait. More waiting? I am not waiting. It took two weeks for this to get here. I am done waiting. You are going to file a claim with ups for broken tubes?
That's called insurance fraud. I am done . Refund My money plus shipping Promptly......

well of course I'm not refunding until he ships it back to me but my paypal account has already been debited (temp hold for eBay buyer dispute).

these tubes (all of them) for the switchblade were pulled and bubble-wrapped.

package raped by UPS once again. This is my 3rd UPS claim so far. No more UPS for me. Bunch of monkeys, and it's totally hit and miss b/c I've gotten shipments that were poorly packaged with no damages at all.
 
RR said:
rabies said:
... anyways, I called UPS and they said they approved the claim, ...
After that video clip making the TV news round recently of a UPS driver throw down the flat panel TV, of course they'll approve the claim. :lol:

If UPS approves the claim and the amp is fixed, then there should be no problem. Right? RIGHT!??? I'm sorry to hear about this. Here is why I don't like selling stuff online =-(
 
update: amp was returned to me for full refund. I did a full retube and it turns on but no sound when I turn off standby (operational). I tried different speaker jacks, etc.

So now I need to do a damage claim with UPS/office depot (the shipper) and have a tech fix the amp.

1) Never going to be a H&K again.
2) Never going to ship via UPS again.
 

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