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 Post subject: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Mark IV

Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:20 pm
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Location: Desert
Why is it that no one can seem to replicate this amp? Why can no one get us the Dumble tone for less than $30,000?

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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:19 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:01 am
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Location: SoCal
It's the "mystique", man.

Would you buy a Ferrari clone for $1,000?

First, no one would believe you could clone a Ferrari (or Rolls-Royce, or Lamborghini, or what-have-you) for so little. If it's so cheap, there must be something wrong with it.

(The other side of the coin is, of course, if it's so expensive, it must be better. These people are called "hobbyists".)

Second, owners of "real" Ferraris would only be too happy to remind you that what you have is not "the real thing". "My daddy can beat up your daddy" and "mine is bigger than yours" are time-honored male traditions.
It's the testosterone, don'tcha know.


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 Post subject: Post removed.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:38 pm 
Post removed.


Last edited by Koprofag on Wed May 15, 2013 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:40 am 
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Single Recto

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:56 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: Pacific Coast
Besides Ceriatone, there a few boutique builder of Dumble clone such as Fuch, Carol[?], Brown Note just to name a few.

Why would one own one? 'Cause you'll be one of the privilege one. :roll:

I could win the lotto next week and a Dumble would not be on my list of "must own this amp". I'd be too embarrassed owning one thinking I'm better than everyone else.

They're great sounding, but if you asks me they sound like a Black Face Fender with an overdrive pedal.

My ultimate amp would be Vox AC30 power section and preamp gain like a MESA Maverick but tone controls like Black Face Fender. Actually Maverick is almost my ultimate amp, just wish the tone section was like Fender's.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:22 am 
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Mark IV

Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:20 pm
Posts: 687
Location: Desert
I'm totally fine with 2 12AU7's in my Express and a compressor pedal. It's great. Just wondering why in the world anyone would ever buy a $30,000 amp ever. Have any of you heard of Henry Kaiser btw? He abuses Dumble amps. His music is downright offensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Mark IV
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:49 am
Posts: 812
What's wrong with you?! Don't you know UTTERLY IMPORTANT all those fragile harmonics are that Dumble amps preserve? :shock:

Man, to me buying a Road King is way too pricey.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Single Recto

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:56 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: Pacific Coast
Robben Ford claims there's nothing that sounds like a Dumble. "Even with all those Dumble clones out there they haven't come close". Yet his colleague Larry Carlton doesn't tour with his Dumbles anymore. He now plays Dumb Clones Bludotone amps.

In mid-70's, [Santa Cruz, CA] I remember walking into an amp technician shop which double up as a guitar instructor's studio. In there was an early snake-skin MESA/Boogie and a Dumble. Alexander Howard Dumble was living in Santa Cruz, CA at the time. These amps were a bit funky at the time. The Dumble's writing on the chassis looked like it was done with tar.

Anyway, not sure who was first between Randall Smith or Alexander Howard that was doing cascading preamp gain. They are somewhat similar but MESA amps are pc boards while Dumble are point-to-point wiring.

[ unrelated Dumble topic ]
EtherealWidow wrote:
I'm totally fine with 2 12AU7's in my Express and a compressor pedal. It's great. ...

Whoa, you really lay off the preamp gain and rely on power stage tubes distortion[perhaps?]. I thought I was only one of few members here that like less preamp gain (with exception of playing my DR when fiddling with Metal, would like the lower power mini-Recto though).

I was about to sell my Studio .22+ because I figure I'll go the lunch pair rout (Mini-Recto). Then I change the V1, V2 with 12AY7 (yes, really low preamp gain) and 5751 preamp tubes on the Studio .22+. Although I lose out on preamp gain (that was my intention) I got less hiss, more channel balance, and fine tuning the preamp gain.

I can't say it was an improvement because many would prefer hi-preamp gain. To me, it is more like a low power MarkIIB which is one of my favorite Boogie.

[ edit note ] I wanna punch the nose of the member here claiming power stage tube distortion is over-rated. "I hate that farty sound of power stage tube distortion [ sic ]."

"farty sound" has NOTHING to do with power stage tube distortion. Power stage distortion has a subtle harmonic drive. "farty sound" has more to do maybe a new cap job or a tube overhaul.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Mark IV
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:49 am
Posts: 812
RR wrote:
Power stage distortion has a subtle harmonic drive.


Last time I heard I a dimed Plexi it wasn't such a subtle drive... :twisted: Neither was my pop's Class5.

OK yeah there's some preamp tubes clipping but the way them amps are put together the tubes were probably begging for mercy.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Single Recto

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:56 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: Pacific Coast
Jackie wrote:
RR wrote:
Power stage distortion has a subtle harmonic drive.


Last time I heard I a dimed Plexi it wasn't such a subtle drive... :twisted: Neither was my pop's Class5.

OK yeah there's some preamp tubes clipping but the way them amps are put together the tubes were probably begging for mercy.
uh, well the "drive" is much different than "fizzy" preamp drive.

I think every guitarist should experience a cranked up Marshall Super Lead! Now that's the gold standard of power stage tube distortion in my opinion! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Mark IV
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:49 am
Posts: 812
I see where you're aiming at. I agree :)

Yeah I also agree on hearing a Plexo dimed. When I got the chance I had a full stack of Greenbacks and a Les Paul Traditional and boy I haven't been the same ever since :D

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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:33 am 
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Single Recto

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:56 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: Pacific Coast
Now if I won the lotto, then a Marshall Plexi and half-stack w/ Greenback would definitely be my one of my purchases. My Les Pauls(2) are waiting.

Gosh, there's the one boutique amp builder building clones. Some of his clones includes vintage classic Marshalls. One customer on another board asked if he could add a rectifier switch for either tube or solid-state* on his 50-watt plexi. Although this builder never attempt this he said he could do it.

This amp builder was so astonish with this mod because his plexi could also sound like a JTM-45 Blues Breaker using the tube rectifier, he added this mod as an option on his 50-watt Plexi or JTM-45 clone builds.

Why am I talking about vintage Marshalls on a Boogie Board? Well in live situation I need channel switching especially I don't use stomp boxes. I rely on the cascading gains. So I find Boogies more practical for live situation.

* rectifier switching tube / solid-state is Randall Smith patent so Matchless, Bad Cats and the rest of these rectifier switching amplifiers has to pay license fee, unless the patent already ran out and Randall Smith has not renewed it.

[ end of hi-jack ]


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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Single Recto

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:16 am
Posts: 1258
RR wrote:
Now if I won the lotto, then a Marshall Plexi and half-stack w/ Greenback would definitely be my one of my purchases. My Les Pauls(2) are waiting.

Gosh, there's the one boutique amp builder building clones. Some of his clones includes vintage classic Marshalls. One customer on another board asked if he could add a rectifier switch for either tube or solid-state* on his 50-watt plexi. Although this builder never attempt this he said he could do it.

This amp builder was so astonish with this mod because his plexi could also sound like a JTM-45 Blues Breaker using the tube rectifier, he added this mod as an option on his 50-watt Plexi or JTM-45 clone builds.

Why am I talking about vintage Marshalls on a Boogie Board? Well in live situation I need channel switching especially I don't use stomp boxes. I rely on the cascading gains. So I find Boogies more practical for live situation.

* rectifier switching tube / solid-state is Randall Smith patent so Matchless, Bad Cats and the rest of these rectifier switching amplifiers has to pay license fee, unless the patent already ran out and Randall Smith has not renewed it.

[ end of hi-jack ]


I could be wrong, but I thought the Mesa patent on the rectifier switching is based upon individual selection between diode and valve rectification, assignable per channel???


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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:31 pm 
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Single Recto

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:56 pm
Posts: 1693
Location: Pacific Coast
KH Guitar Freak wrote:
RR wrote:
...

* rectifier switching tube / solid-state is Randall Smith patent so Matchless, Bad Cats and the rest of these rectifier switching amplifiers has to pay license fee, unless the patent already ran out and Randall Smith has not renewed it.

[ end of hi-jack ]


I could be wrong, but I thought the Mesa patent on the rectifier switching is based upon individual selection between diode and valve rectification, assignable per channel???
What you stated, I'm pretty sure he has that patent too.

A while back, I was reading in a guitar magazine interview with Randall Smith was asked if he should have patent "cascading preamp gain" since now most hi gain guitar tube amps used this circuitry. He said "Yeah, I would have been a rich man. I pretty much patent many of my designs like Dual Rectifier having the option of using either tubes or silicon diode." [ paraphrase, well I thought he said something like that ].

I might be wrong 'cause Matchless DC30 came out about the time MESA's Dual Rectifier came out.

Randall Smith and Hartley Peavey have the most patent in guitar amp designs.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Single Recto

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:34 pm
Posts: 1164
Glasswerks, Bludotone RED PLATE, Carrol Ann all make a "D" style amp that is under $30,000.00 and the best part is YOU get to pick what style of "D" amp you want!! To answer your question, I guess D had all of the best players and all of the mystique going for him, then dropped out of sight. Kind of like wen a movie star dies before their time, suddenly they are a legend ala James Dean.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Dumble?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Mark III
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Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 317
Location: FL
the mesa boogie tremoverb is based off of a dumble

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