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Red Barchetta

Red Barchetta

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Hey all....

Took delivery of my new Yamaha SA2200 about a month ago. (Better version of Gibson ES335) No one local carried it, so I had to go online. Flat out BEAUTIFUL guitar. Wonderful, great, fantastic, woody, snappy, round tone....Took it out on 1 gig and noticed some issues...

10th fret was extremely uneven....buzzing on 4 of 6 strings...fretting out during bends...YUK! Other frets need polishing....hmmmm....

Nut was unevenly cut. Some strings sitting high, some sitting too low...ALL strings binding at the nut and "pinging" when tuning. EEWWW!

Long story short...$168 later, had a new bone nut cut...perfect...fret leveling and polish...perfect....re setup for 10s as opposed to the 9s that come on it.....fantastic.

Now the guitar is one of the finest examples of a 335 style I have ever owned, played, or heard. The beaut is even tonally on par with some 60s vintage Gibson 335s. I can tell that the wood hasn't aged (mellowed? matured?) yet...but God! Give this thing a few years and it's gonna be even better.

My problem is...I shouldn't have to put out cash to get problems like that fixed on a brand new, supposedly high end axe. It ticks me off that none of the major manufacturers seem to put as much attention into quality control as they should. A good example is Gibson's production line....their Custom shop stuff is awesome...but the standard stuff as of late has been substandard. (Thats why I ended up with a Yamaha...they beat Gibson)

Has anyone else noticed this slip in quality...or am I just being a whiner?


Let me know...

RB
 
Red Barchetta said:
Has anyone else noticed this slip in quality...or am I just being a whiner?
Click to expand...

I think that if you were to read any Gibson subject on any forum you'd find that most of the people will agree with you.
 
I picked up a MIM Tele today at Guitarget to try out a couple of pedals.

I was pleasantly surprised, almost enough to buy it! It played and sounded better than a lot of American guitars I've played in the last couple of years. Three bills and change....
 
Actually, the MIM stuff is surprisingly good. My brother had a MIM Strat a while back. It had a Wilkinson trem and Lace sensors. It was pretty much the Strat to die for IMHO.
 
You're right on... The factory setups(?) are horrific for the most part, on many guitars... But upon purchasing a new guitar, you should have it set-up a couple of weeks after you get it home anyway.. I will say that Ibanez, Schecter, and ESP have been the best out of the box for a long time....
ax. :twisted:

My luthier's quote, "a Gibson is only good enough." lol.....I still prefer Gibson though! :wink:
 
Red Barchetta said:
Hey all....

Took delivery of my new Yamaha SA2200 about a month ago. (Better version of Gibson ES335) No one local carried it, so I had to go online. Flat out BEAUTIFUL guitar. Wonderful, great, fantastic, woody, snappy, round tone....Took it out on 1 gig and noticed some issues...

10th fret was extremely uneven....buzzing on 4 of 6 strings...fretting out during bends...YUK! Other frets need polishing....hmmmm....

Nut was unevenly cut. Some strings sitting high, some sitting too low...ALL strings binding at the nut and "pinging" when tuning. EEWWW!

Long story short...$168 later, had a new bone nut cut...perfect...fret leveling and polish...perfect....re setup for 10s as opposed to the 9s that come on it.....fantastic.

Now the guitar is one of the finest examples of a 335 style I have ever owned, played, or heard. The beaut is even tonally on par with some 60s vintage Gibson 335s. I can tell that the wood hasn't aged (mellowed? matured?) yet...but God! Give this thing a few years and it's gonna be even better.

My problem is...I shouldn't have to put out cash to get problems like that fixed on a brand new, supposedly high end axe. It ticks me off that none of the major manufacturers seem to put as much attention into quality control as they should. A good example is Gibson's production line....their Custom shop stuff is awesome...but the standard stuff as of late has been substandard. (Thats why I ended up with a Yamaha...they beat Gibson)

Has anyone else noticed this slip in quality...or am I just being a whiner?


Let me know...

RB
Click to expand...


I don't agree about your Gibson ***-cess-ment. Gibson makes some fine guitars that are affordable. I own several, including a few that aren't affordable.

My new PRS Custom 24 seems to be flawless. Great guitar for 2 grand.
 
For a fine example of a 335 you should've looked at a Heritage 535. Mine is a flawless guitar, and better at almost half the price then the Gibson 335's I tried.
BTW the fretwork on this Heritage is quite simply the best I've ever seen.
 
JazzRules said:
I don't agree about your Gibson ***-cess-ment. Gibson makes some fine guitars that are affordable. I own several, including a few that aren't affordable.

My new PRS Custom 24 seems to be flawless. Great guitar for 2 grand.
Click to expand...

You got lucky on your Gibsons, especially if they were of recent construction (last 10 years).

Gibson had a huge display at the Dallas Guitar show this past April. I tried several of the Les Pauls, 355-types, and acoustics that they had out for display. Most of these needed setup work to be playable, some majorly. In the case of the Sheryl Crow acoustic, it needed an entire new nut to be playable.

Now, I ask you: this was a SHOW! When you are showing off your stuff, wouldn't you want to put your absolute best examples out for display? If the quality control is lacking on these models, imagine what gets sent to dealers.
 
cvansickle said:
JazzRules said:
I don't agree about your Gibson ***-cess-ment. Gibson makes some fine guitars that are affordable. I own several, including a few that aren't affordable.

My new PRS Custom 24 seems to be flawless. Great guitar for 2 grand.
Click to expand...

You got lucky on your Gibsons, especially if they were of recent construction (last 10 years).

Gibson had a huge display at the Dallas Guitar show this past April. I tried several of the Les Pauls, 355-types, and acoustics that they had out for display. Most of these needed setup work to be playable, some majorly. In the case of the Sheryl Crow acoustic, it needed an entire new nut to be playable.

Now, I ask you: this was a SHOW! When you are showing off your stuff, wouldn't you want to put your absolute best examples out for display? If the quality control is lacking on these models, imagine what gets sent to dealers.
Click to expand...


I own the following Gibsons:

SG Standard Limited Edition Korina (1993)
Les Paul DC Plus (1998)
ES175 (1997)
Super V CES (Custom Shop 1992)

All are about as flawless as it gets.
 
Ive played even a few gibson custom shop guitars that were pretty **** bad, at least in fit and finish.

Gibson USA on the other hand is a COMPLETE CRAP SHOOT!
Vast majority of what they put out these days is GARBAGE! Especially when you put it next to what the Koreans and Japanese are doing these days.

Its a shame because I like a lot of gibson designs, but at this point Id honestly pay more for an epiphone. Thank god I dont have to though :twisted:
 
A note on my "***"essment... I own a 91 Gibson LP Standard, a 71 Gibson SG, and a 64 or 65 Gibson Melody Maker. Each of these is a FINE example of Gibson's quality. Jazz Rules, you misunderstand me. I am a Gibson man thru and thru...but lately, their stuff has been substandard. Their custom shop stuff has been pretty good, but I expect to get Gibson quality from thier "off the rack" stuff. My LP Standard is my main axe. I will likely not change that. I am just disappointed with Gibson lately. I KNOW they can do better.

I did consider Heritage, but something about their asthetics just didn't twirl my knobs.

RB
 
I played a Class 5 Les Paul in Boston last week, $3k+ and very pretty...

BUT IT PLAYED LIKE A PIECE OF SHEE-ITE! Good golly, for that kind of coin, there is no excuse. The guitar was completely unplayable. Bad Gibson, bad!
 
Red Barchetta said:
I did consider Heritage, but something about their asthetics just didn't twirl my knobs.
RB
Click to expand...

Asthetically the only difference, between the Heritage 535 and the Gibson 335 is the shape of the headstock, and the fact that Gibsons pickguard is plastic and Heritages is flamed maple with a bound edge (nice touch). After all these are the same guys who used to build the 335 when they were still being made by hand in Kalamazoo.
All in all when you consider Heritages quality and price (including a proper setup from the factory)versus Gibson or any of the others I tried, Heritage was a clear winner.
 
No doubt...the Heritage is a FINE guitar. Wonderful sound, playability, etc. But...just not the best choice for me.

Now that I have played several shows with my "tweaked" SA2200...I am very very satisfied. It compares very well or fares better than EVERY 335 or clone I have played it next to.

My only gripe here is how these quality issues just don't seem to concern the manufacturers.


RB
 
I will agree to some extent, EVERY guitar will need a setup soon after purchase. period. thats the way it works. as for the gibson thing, as said before, it is a total crap shoot, you might get a good one or you might not, i personally bought an 04 LP standard new and it played like a dream, given it did need a setup after about 2 weeks or so, but as i said before, everything does. I dont think its a slip in quality per say, more of a "hey lets see what we can get away with" it is cheaper to let bad guitars though rather than destroy them, like they used to do.
 
I have not had any problems with my new guitars, but I try to buy from stores that setup their guitars before putting them out for display.
 
Well when i was in the market for a Les paul about 2 years ago i kept reading stuff about quality and little things to look for. I guess i got lucky to I bought a Gibson Les paul standard and a Gibson Les Paul Classic. I think the quality of the 2 i got are nothing but the best. The fret work and finish are on par. I think a lot of the quality problems are the less expensive models such as the faded series which IMO is to be expected.
 
I have to chime back in...

My main gripe is that I have noticed these quality issues on supposedly "top line" guitars...ones that you would expect to be excellent. When I was in the market for a 335, I expected the guitar to be as good as the ones I've had in the past. Gibson's 335 is by no means one of their "cheper" models...I found inconsistencies in workmanship in EVERY one I tried except for their custom shop jobbies...not just set up issues, but crappy workmanship. I didn't think I should have to pay almost 4 grand for a custom shop 335 to get the quality I had come to expect from Gibson's production line.

You have to expect set up issues if your dealer is not known for setting up thier guitars well...the temperature and humidity changes a guitar goes thru from the factory to the dealer have to be extreme. The poor workmanship on 2 or 3 thousand dollar guitars is what is unacceptable.

I hate to admit it, but my old dad was right. "They just don't make 'em like they used to."


RB
 
According to some old timers i know they said quality issues with fender and gibson has been around since the companies started not just all of a sudden. You did not hear about much back then because people use to literally destroy, hand down, or toss the instrument out. The vintage guitars that are left now are the ones that made it through. I dont know if this is true or not but it makes sense to me. I really dont buy in to the "they made em so much better back then" statements. There is crap in every huge company wether it being guitars or cars they have and will be out there.
 

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