Which Les Paul?

been thinking of getting a Les Paul, played them a lot at stores but haven't owned one (yet). With $2-3k to spend, what direction would you go?

A few criteria are great OD tone but would like to ability to clean it up well using only vol pot or pickup selector, great action and maximum ease of playability (I'm used to tele's and strat's which I find quite easy, as are Gibson Explorers and V's), and weight is an issue with my back and long gigs. I sure like the thought of chambered or weight relieved but don't want to sacrifice everything else for it.

It's a daunting task to get your arms around all of the years, styles, pickups, necks, etc. so maybe you can at least get me started?

Thanks for the input.

Play a PRS McCarty. I had always wanted a sunburst LP, got the chambered one with the 50s neck. It was good, but not as good as my two-ton '81 LP Standard.
The PRS blew it away for fit and finish. And it's much lighter as well.
Not that the LP was bad, just the PRS was better.
But, no matter which brand, you still have to play every one in the store to find the one that's right for you.

You might want to check out a Tom Anderson Cobra. Same wood construction(mahogany body, neck with maple cap and rosewood fingerboard) and 24 3/4" scale length as my 10 pound Les Paul. They play and sound great without all the weight. If you are a Fender player, this guitar might just bridge the gap with the split coil humbuckers and such. Their customer service is top notch, as well. 8)

I highly recommend you try a Heritage H150 or H157.

Better woods, better construction, better sounding, & better price than a comparable Gibson. And, you can order it with practically any option you want!

For more info, visit the Heritage Owners Club at http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/

See if you can find a Les paul Standard D.C. cutaway. ( Thats it on my Icon.) It has a chamberd body (Mohogany) And only one volume and tone control. It weighs much Les than a reg. Paul :lol: And sounds just as good if not better. I had a few years back a reissue 1968 black beauty..2 pick ups.. and the 1998 DC sounds just like it. Should be able to find one on ebay..

The guy is asking about Les Pauls, not your opinion on other manufacturers trying to compete with them :roll:

As a matter of opinion, I have tried both PRS and Heritage, along side LP custom shop guitars.

NEITHER had the same distinct LP type tone, and neither had the same level of big overdriven sound, I am talking Custom shop VOS models though.

Price wise is negligible when you are going to spend serious money, I would rather spend more than I budgeted for to get the RIGHT guitar, even if it means holding off to save more dollars to put towards it.

Check out the 57/58/59 custom shop VOS models, try out a few others as well, and see what you like as they are quite individual, some nicer than others but this is subjective, and good luck.

I guess it depends on what you want to spend. Les Paul studios are great as long as you like the 50's neck. I've bought a couple in the past two years. One with P-90s and one with humbuckers (which I replaced with Seymour Duncans - see below). You get all the tone without the bucks. Excellent working guitars for the money.

If you have the $$$ you can't go wrong with a nice standard/traditional. I personally think the VOS & Custom shop stuff is a bit over the top. Great to impress your friends but they don't sound different than any other maple top LP. I have an old LP Custom I bought new 25 years ago. It's really nice but I can't see spending $3800 for one today.

Most importantly Gibson makes about 10 flavors of humbuckers so be sure you get a chance to test drive the one you want. Each of those pickup combinations sound very different and totally change the character of the guitar.

GD_NC said:

If you have the $$$ you can't go wrong with a nice standard/traditional. I personally think the VOS & Custom shop stuff is a bit over the top. Great to impress your friends but they don't sound different than any other maple top LP.

Click to expand...

Wrong sorry, they don't all have maple tops, and they are far better than any average Custom, especially the current year "custom" run of the mill Gibson models. VOS guitars are as close to the authentic thing as it gets, re-issues are far better than a current production custom will ever be, and studio's have nothing on them tone wise, and a studio neck is generally thinner than a 57 neck.

Custom Shop VOS are the only way to go, unless you find that rare old bird that is in good nick, in which you will pay a premium for, unless you are happy with the average par level Standards of more recent years.

And by the way the current Traditional and similar models seem to be a bit of hit and miss, and the tone nothing special from what I have played. Actually I played one recently with a few random frets that were actually out (brand new guitar taken off the rack to test an amp I was purchasing at a local store) and were really horrible frets to play as well. No thanks!

volatileNoise said:

The guy is asking about Les Pauls, not your opinion on other manufacturers trying to compete with them :roll:

Click to expand...

My 1971 Goldtop is one of those "freaks of nature". I bought is used in the late 1980's for a whopping $425 USD. It plays like butter and sounds fantastic. The electronics are from RS Guitarworks and the bridge and tailpiece are from Tonepros with seymour duncan Pearly Gates(neck) and Custom Custom (bridge) humbuckers. It would take a major life crisis for me to ever think of selling this guitar.

With that being said, I get chills when I think of ever having to replace it with a NEW Les Paul. The hit and miss quality/tone of the newer Les Pauls helped me make the decision to have it overhauled at Gibson Repair and Restoration a year and a half ago. The VOS models are very nice, but WAY overpriced for my budget, FWIW. The Heratige guitars would be my choice if I were looking for the most guitar for the money in a Les Paul body shape.

Now, the OP said that the weight of the guitar was an issue. THAT is the so-called wrench in the gears. :wink: Chambering the body to releive weight does affect the tone somewhat. Are any of the VOS Gibsons chambered? My goldtop weighs in at an even 10.0 pounds, but the tone makes me overlook that "notch in my collerbone" feeling when I play for long intervals. Sweet pain. :lol:

yeah they are a full weight, some probably heavier than 10 pound even, but the maple cap models (Goldtop for example) might weigh a bit less, in fact I think from memory that the '57 VOS Goldtop is one of the more affordable ones too.

http://www.espguitars.com/guitars_deluxe_ec.html

Much better quality, more elaborate, under a grand, with the 2 grand in pocket, you can spend that on a new amp.

Les Paul Classic 1960 reissue, Heritage Cherry Sunburst. Slim taper neck. Hot ceramic pups. Low no buzz fast action. Using one since 1998. Many other guitfiddles in my arsenal, but always go back to it. Versatile, dependable, rock machine full of soul, tone, mojo. 'Nuff sed.

Used R8.

volatileNoise said:

The guy is asking about Les Pauls, not your opinion on other manufacturers trying to compete with them :roll:

Click to expand...

Kind of like you're going to purchase a car and you have your mind set on a particular model. So you asks people opinion which style of that model and everyone chimes in to get another type of car.

Nothing wrong with you members suggestions, they're all great guitars but I'm pretty sure member's jab intention is purchasing a Les Paul.

yeah, i recently went shopping for a les paul, and ended up with a 1977 Ibanez Artist 2618.

every bit as solid and good playing as the VOS Les Pauls i spent 3 hours demo'ing.

just saying.

i had one (artist) back in the late 70's thru the early 80's, and it has that big beefy heavy tone to it.
fairly heavy, ibanez really gave gibson a run for the money back then, they really had something to prove.

i call my artist, my 'les paul killer'.

LOL


either way, bottom line: you just gotta pick em up, and play them, to know.
every guitar talks to the player in a different way. take the time, to play a hundred of them, and then you'll know.

don't be distracted or misdirected by 'name recognition'.

there's plenty of guys that sound like hell, playing high end guitars out there, don't you know.

It is pretty disgusting that Gibson has about 100 different tiers of guitars and they're selling the Guitar the Les Paul SHOULD BE (VOS) for nearly $5000 CAD. This basically boils down to a public acknowledgment that they have been cutting corners with regards to quality all these years. An angering admission of guilt that confirms what everybody already knew. When I actually picked up my Gibson, I chose it because of the way it sounded and played acoustically. The electronics weren't even working properly and they had to get it all fixed up. Sure it was a floor model, but it simply sounded and played better than every other guitar I tried. Once plugged in, it sounded good but it didn't really come "alive" until this summer when I replaced the electronics and pickups. Oh, and the finish work: Orange peel around the neck pocket. Absolutely unacceptable in a guitar over $1K in my opinion.

What does this have to do with musicians in the market? CAVEAT EMPTOR! When you go, try every stinking Les Paul style guitar in a store and do this multiple times until you can sniff out the dogs and the winners. Who cares what the price is or what the model says, get the stand out instrument. IF you DARE to buy a Gibson, you'll have to find the right one or you'll have a $3k headache on your hands.

Best of luck!

orange peel? who cares! my reissue even has surface cracks starting in the binding, and with the VOS finish and all the scratches from gigging and being thrashed, it certainly looks worn... but again I could not care less.

still got the best tone running through a recto than any other guitar I have ever heard... Period.


you get what you pay for when you are buying a hand made guitar for tone.

want a "perfect" finish? then buy a cheap machine manufactured axe, guitar stores everywhere are overflowing with them.

Wait what? A 5$K PRS with a 10 top (AAAAA for Gibson crowd) is a cheap machine manufactured axe? =-o I wish that people would come off this notion that 'completely hand crafted' is better than using a machine for some tasks, such as complicated routing and cutting fret grooves. This is the same as saying a completely handwired amp is de facto better than a PCB one. Machines do some things better and people do other things better. Besides, a solid body guitar is a hunk of wood, where resonance is the most important attribute. It isn't a complex design, like a Cello or an Acoustic guitar. I bet even VOS Gibson instruments are at least partially made by machines.

When I was shopping for a #1 axe, it was quite the standoff between the Les Paul Standard and a PRS Singlecut. The Les Paul won because of the rich buttery cleans and the huge beefy gain, but it was a tight battle to be sure. The PRS was no slouch, with an aggressive, crunchier distortion, great action, AND perfect cosmetics. It is obvious to me that more work and care went into that instrument, but it just didn't ROAR like a Gibson. It is kind of like Mesa vs Marshall here. At least Mesa doesn't compromise on quality for their amplifiers. All the testimonies of techs at this forum suggest that Marshall is cost cutting everywhere possible but if you gas for that crunch, you get that amp, not a copy. That was my dilemma. Basically, a Gibson sounds like a Gibson and you have to deal with the 'risks' associated with purchasing one if you want that sound. I don't claim that a good Les Paul sounds or plays bad, I just think there is a problem when you have a 1 / 50 chance of actually acquiring the 'pick of the litter' so to speak. This is within the $3k budget.

The orange peel is a symptom of a larger problem. Ceramic disc caps, cheap grover tuners, poor fret work, frets popping out, etc = negligence. Whatever, MY Les Paul HAULS and it is a 2002 Standard Premium Plus. 3A maple top, 60s profile neck and one of the best playing / responding necks I have tried on a Gibson. With the electronics upgrade, it sounds awesome and it has always held its tune very well. This summer I tried it next to a stock Les Paul Standard and it positively destroyed the other guitar. An employee at a local Long and McShaft could not believe that I took a Les Paul over a PRS Singlecut. What can I say, since I upgraded my axe it absolutely destroys most stock production level instruments.

It is just a problem that I had to put new pickups AND electronics in it to make it come alive. . . and what about the 50 or so other Gibsons I tried and didn't buy?? Sure my guitar is great, plays well, sounds amazing, but is it worth $3k even before the money I dumped into it? I am a huge advocate of tone and playability over everything else, but this poor Quality Control at Gibson smacks of a larger problem. The fact that GIbson released a VOS line for even more money INSTEAD of simply reverting their specs back to the original and not altering their prices sounds like a huge cash grab to me.

I am not disputing that the architecture of a Les Paul is fundamentally flawless. The blueprint is fine. I just have issue with what Gibson has been doing with that design as of late.

Best advice I could give ever is to wait till something pops up. If money is burning a hole in your pocket, look for a used R8, R9. What some are doing is buying a mid level Paul and doing upgrades, like the WCR pickups and wiring kits doing the neck shave to '59 spec, like the RS guitar thing. Good luck!

GD_NC said:

I personally think the VOS & Custom shop stuff is a bit over the top. Great to impress your friends but they don't sound different than any other maple top LP.

Click to expand...

What a crock. lol This sounds like an opinion based purely on assumptions and not being able to afford a historic. FYI the Custom Shop guitars are made of higher quality woods, etc.... Not to mention they have a long neck tenon and a completely solid body. The Traditionals are weight relieved (9 swiss cheese wholes in body) and still weigh in at 9lbs+. I am a member on the My Les Paul Forum and anyone who has ever upgraded from a traditional to a reissue has never been disappointed nor shown any regret. Having said that there is a difference. The difference really can't be explained you just have to experience it for yourself.