Poor Gibson

I like alot of instruments. Gibson used to be one of my favorites. I still see a few guitars I would like
but ever since the screwing they gave me on my $3800.00 Alex Lifeson AL-355, yes the one with the volute in
the wrong place, I will never buy a Gibson again. Not that it matters to them.
For a reminder the white neck in the picture is the "painstaking recreation of Alex's Iconic guitar".
The other neck is a close year back when they used volutes to reinforce the truss rod carve out,
due to excessive neck/head cracks.
Right click open, you won't get logged out :

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186comp.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186compred.jpg

Gibson claimed they were working on a resolution, then about two months laterI was told that there is nothing wrong with this neck, and that is the neck Alex chose. I was then instructed to send it to Gibson restore shop, and they might be able to take of the volute, all at my cost of course, OR , yes they also told me I could sell it on ebay.
I love great customer service. I could list the other issues but I am really leading to Gibsons other problems
that are coming to light.

Like when they opened up and sold guitars to the public for a month. Probably quick cash?

How about those Jimi Hendrix "STRAT PACKS", a gibson strat and an amp to put under the tree for $100.00 bucks.
Brilliant. I hope Fender finds some ground here.

Yet this beats it all, Please remember Innocent until Proven guilty, Yet still, I would not want to have to deal with
this. Yet it is really beyond reasoning why they have to go to these levels.

Any how right click and check it out:

http://www.guitaredge.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=280:gibson-gets-raided-by-law-enforcement-officials&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=107

Cheers

now they've got the wood issue to deal with..

American made has a premium price tag on it. People are starting to realize that American Made doesn't necessarily = quality, and Made in China doesn't necessarily = crap.

I still love my Classic Les Paul. I'm sure it would be just as nice at a quarter of the price and made in China.

Jacko123 said:

I still love my Classic Les Paul. I'm sure it would be just as nice at a quarter of the price and made in China.

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You are fooling yourself. I had my 1971 goldtop LP reworked at the Gibson custom shop about a year ago. The shop coordinator told me that they were not the fastest, nor the cheapest in town. BUT, the sheer volume of guitars waiting to be repaired says a lot. He told me that if I had any problems with the work done (one week or one year from the date of repair), that they would make it right. We also picked the fret wire that most closely matched my original size. He said that their luthiers had to be approved by corporate for doing the repair work on the vintage Gibsons. Hence the small number of employees for such an operation. Try getting a handshake/face to face deal like that fom a Chinese company. Or worse yet, an American company with Chinese production. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Well, he's speaking in general terms, and I agree with him. "Made in the USA" fetches a pretty penny these days, and it doesn't necessarily mean much, and a lot of people think that American made equates to "the best there is". It reminds me of a youtube comment (on a Maxon 808 demo) I read where somebody said "it's not made in America, so I'm not going to buy it" and I responded with "****! I have one and it sounds great, but I guess I'd better throw it out!"

Also @OP, Fender can rot for all I care. I have nothing against the company, I just have never played any of their products that couldn't be easily outperformed by something else (and usually for less money). Also generally speaking, I've met a few "Fender guys" that will play nothing without a Fender logo on it, and I've hated every single one of their personalities. Very snooty.

On that note, it seems like Gibson's quality has been going downhill the past few years (unsure about the Custom Shop). I'm glad I got my hands on a quality LP when I could.

JOEY B. said:

Jacko123 said:

I still love my Classic Les Paul. I'm sure it would be just as nice at a quarter of the price and made in China.

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You are fooling yourself. I had my 1971 goldtop LP reworked at the Gibson custom shop about a year ago. The shop coordinator told me that they were not the fastest, nor the cheapest in town. BUT, the sheer volume of guitars waiting to be repaired says a lot. He told me that if I had any problems with the work done (one week or one year from the date of repair), that they would make it right. We also picked the fret wire that most closely matched my original size. He said that their luthiers had to be approved by corporate for doing the repair work on the vintage Gibsons. Hence the small number of employees for such an operation. Try getting a handshake/face to face deal like that fom a Chinese company. Or worse yet, an American company with Chinese production. :evil: :evil: :evil:

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I had four fretts in a row years ago that came loose on my LP custom. It was fixed under warranty, how did
they do it, they glued them in,POORLY. So sure if I want to pay them to put the fretts in they will, but why should they do it poorly under warranty. Less why should they repair poor work with a poor repair. If you go through some of the gibson forums, others have had simular shoddy work.
Yet a look at their restore and restoration dept is astonishing.

Someone generalizes a statement, it leaves room for unlimited numbers of people to jump on a post.
And unfortunately, as in the case above, some even "jump on others personally, as "your fooling yourself", is just that shameful example. :shock:
If he has a guitar that is well made in china, good for him.

I wonder with the the gibson I have, if that neck is made by esp, ltd, or even Ibanez, or outsourced as some have volutes like the AL, even better and closer to the nut.

LerxstLee said:

Someone generalizes a statement, it leaves room for unlimited numbers of people to jump on a post.
And unfortunately, as in the case above, some even "jump on others personally, as "your fooling yourself", is just that shameful example. :shock:
If he has a guitar that is well made in china, good for him.

I wonder with the the gibson I have, if that neck is made by esp, ltd, or even Ibanez, or outsourced as some have volutes like the AL, even better and closer to the nut.

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Sorry if my statement came off as a personal attack. It was not meant that way. I hate to hear about the OP's issues with Gibson, as I had a great experience dealing with the guys at Repair and Restoration. I guess it's like restaurants. If you talk to enough people, you will find a person with a "horror story" about your favorite dining place.

I had heard some of the complaints about the newer production models inconsistant quality. That is the precise reason that I had my old guitar planed, refretted, new electronics, Tonepros bridge and tailpiece, etc.... I love the neck on my Paul and was afraid that I would not find a new one that could compete.

I have nothing against foreign made guitars, either. One of my good friends just got a newer Ibanez SG2000 that is VERY nice playing and sounding.

My big issue is American companies outsourcing their labor and importing for US sale. Gibson has gotten to be too "big-money-corporate" for my tastes. Their production models are overpriced in comparison to the American Standard series Fenders in my opinion. Back in the late 1970's when I first starting getting into guitars, a Fender Strat and a Gibson LP Standard were competively priced. What happened to that???? If Gibson outsourced their labor to China, the consumer would likely pay roughly half price compared to the American made model. The quality may or may not be any different, it's a crapshoot. The corporate executive would get a bigger bonus in their paycheck, because the profit margin was twice as high. All the while, more jobs taken from American workers.

Do we, as a country, really need more of this?


My experience at the Repair and Restoration dept of Gibson was the polar opposite of "Corporate America". There were no zoot suits or secretaries, just like minded guitar guys there to fix my guitar. The shop does not look heavily decorated from the outside, in fact I had had a bit of a time finding it. The sign on top of the building says "Valley Arts Guitars". I told a friend of mine that it was like going back in time. No bullshit slogans or mission statements, nobody trying to blow sunshine up your ***. I loved it.

I played every Gibson ES 335 in G.C. and all of them were way below what I expected. Then, I noteced a lonely Epiphone 1963 ES 335 Dot Elitist. Went into the private room to play it. I was instantly sold on this guitar. This is not one of the lower end 335 Epiphones. This one is made in Japan and is of custom shop quaility. Absoloutly a perfect guitar. The tone from this guitar is pure gold. I could have bought any guitar that day. The Epiphone won out huge over the Gibsons. I think that Epiphone was forced by Gibson to discontinue this model for that reason. I highly recomend picking one of these up if you can find one. They are destined to be a very sought after gutiar. I have played for over 30 years in both pro bands and studios and I am not just throwing out B.S. Just thought I would add that.

All I'm going to say is that I played a Zakk Wylde Epi at American Music and it played better than the "real" thing.

That is all.

I've played some awesome Epis in my shop. I just wish the headstock wasn't so fugly. I'd totally get a Epi Explorer or Flying V though. Set neck for a fraction of the price.

MesaGod666 said:

All I'm going to say is that I played a Zakk Wylde Epi at American Music and it played better than the "real" thing.

That is all.

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Yes, the head stocks are a little fugly. I do love the way my 335 elitist head stock looks though. I used to have an epiphone double cutaway with two humbuckers. That guitar sucked. My elitist 335 however, is up there with custom shop quality. I mean, I am not kidding.

hi

Let your ears and fingers decide always works !!!!!!

bick

Hi Lerxst....I've heard you often about your AL-355, and a thought occurred to me...you may have thought of this already but...couldn't you have GOOD luthier just remove or reshape the volute so it's not so obtrusive? My CS 355 doesn't have a volute at all and it stays in tune really well. I've had it about 8 years w/ no issues.

Just a thought, seems a shame 'cause those new CS models are $$$$ ... good luck.

I've been a Gibson "Kool Aid" drinker for many many years and have watched QC go down hill.
My last Gibson, a 2006 SG Standard has a fretboard that is slightly smaller in width than the neck between the nut and the first fret.
It has a "lip" and gap. Because of where it's located I never bothered getting it fixed. I know it's a guitar that only costs $1100.00 but am I asking too much to have the fretboard the correct width for the neck???
I've seen other flaws on Les Pauls that are $2500+ guitars. They are no longer worth the money IMO.

I remember when people used to scoff and turn their nose up at guitars made in Japan, now those Japanese guitars fetch a high resale, turns out Japanese craftsmanship was great after all.

I have an ESP Eclipse that looks, feels, plays and sounds just as good as any Les Paul I can go down to Guitar Mart and pull off the wall and play.
The fit and finish on it is perfect. Made in Japan.

Their LTD line, the 1000 deluxe series, same quality - Made in Korea and priced affordable.

The Agile Les Paul, AL-3000 series and up, the quality on those are awesome, every bit as good IMO as a Gibson Les Paul out of Nashville today and starts at $379.00 - Made in Korea.

Today, if I'm going to spend $2000 or more on a guitar, I'm getting it hand made by a custom shop luthier like Neal Moser at Moser Custom Shop or Christian George at Wizardstyx or insert your favorite custom luthier here.

Gibson is no longer worth it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BF0N320091216

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Gibson-Guitar-Reviews-E6869.htm

KH Guitar Freak said:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BF0N320091216

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Gibson-Guitar-Reviews-E6869.htm

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That speaks volumes. Another American Heritage company being driven into the ground by poor management.

Poor management or just plain F**KNG greed.
I have my eyes on a nice '57 vos LP, yet I can't do it.
I love the lifetime warranty.
What does it cover?
Not a bleed through on the binding, nor the nice top.
It is always your humidity, it could never be unseasoned wood slapped together to make payroll once again.
Loose fretts they cover, I can vouch for that, they will make you pay to ship it, they will glue the loose ones in,
then you pay have it shipped back. Can't b*tch about shipping but please fix the fretts. Wait, glueing them in
is fixing them. They even mixed wood shavings in with the glue to make it look almost right.
I always thought the "barbs" were grabbing the wood.

/cheers

WOW!!!! Worst placce to work? Really? That kind of "award" should wake somebody up I would think (keyword is "should"). :shock:

I know my '98 ES-355 was pretty poorly set-up when I got it; it took quite a while to get it where it is now. The 335 I had before that was MUCH worse - can you say "trainwreck"? The LP Studio and CS Junior I had at about the same time were almost perfect from the start. Shows how hit and miss they are...

And then my lowly PRS SE Custom out of Korea was magic out of the box!!! I've NEVER had to do any thing to that one!! :mrgreen: Go figure...I guess money and a brand don't mean what they used to. It's a sad state...

Sadly it's been many years since Gibson built a decent guitar. Even more sad is to see them dragging their name through the mud with poor build quality. They have gone from superior to something a lot less. I'd have no problems putting a mid to upper level LTD against their custom shop guitars only to find that a cheap label like LTD is building better guitars than Gibson custom shop.

It's a sad sad thing cause I have had this dream since puberty, me standing on stage with a black LP custom strapped on. Well luckily Esp are making some mean LP style guitars for a fraction of the price so I can add a stripper to my chilhood dream now
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jacko123 said:

American made has a premium price tag on it. People are starting to realize that American Made doesn't necessarily = quality, and Made in China doesn't necessarily = crap.

I still love my Classic Les Paul. I'm sure it would be just as nice at a quarter of the price and made in China.

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Every Chinese guitar I have are crap, and they're all Deans. Oh and BTW maybe you should check out the way Dean handles their guitars in the warehouse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEiKdjgZcH8