Xotic BB/Rectos not known for solo/lead amps.

[TremoJem]

This appeared as part of another discussion. I wanted to take it to another level.
Questions to consider: is a rectifier capable of singing/sustaining leads at high level and what do you add or change to make this possible?


posting by: Blaklynx
Also, Recto amps aren't known for their ease of dialing in. They're not known to be great 'solo/lead' amps, either. Rhythm? No trouble. If you want singing, liquid sustain, these amps need help via a boost/OD pedal (TS9, 808 type pedals, other OD pedals) to push the front end.
posting by: Blaklynx


That is interesting.

I am able to get an incredible lead/solo tone out of my two Tremoverbs...BUT it has to be at a certain volume.

If I am too low, it is thin or transparent.

If I am to high, it is lacking in exactly the characteristics that you spoke to in your post.

I don't think I ever read something like that before and give you credit for speaking up.

I never really had (until recently) a chance to "open" up my amps as everyone talks about.

I have NEVER liked High/Loud stage volumes, but unfortunately I never had Mesa products when I did play out live.

But, my practices with my band are "stage volume" which is to say we all compete or "Mix" to the level of the ambient drum kit level.

Having said that, I have two amps both running in stereo in a medium size, "dead" (acoustically) room, and they fill very nicely so I might be at 30-35% open.

It is a different story in the new rehearsal room, as it is three times the size and very "alive" (acoustically) I would say that I am about 50% open on my overall output in this new room.

Now here is my point, at this new volume I am understanding a little more what people mean when they say nothing sounds like a recto when it is running at high output, BUT at this volume I do LOSE the "singing, liquid sustain that I am accustom too.

Just one other observation, I use rectifier tubes/spongy settings. I have tried other settings using these controls/switches and have noticed more output and more gain, but not necessarily better tracking as others have mentioned. I am not really sure which I like better. If I choose silicon diode/bold, I have to reduce the channel masters and I don't like that, but I will continue to experiment and dial it in, which is another great bit of wisdom you share in your post...these amps are NOT easy to dial in and require patience and the will to succeed. I personally appreciate that attention to detail by Mesa

My question is, will something like the "Xotic" BB help for this problem?

Thanks all...

sorry for not getting the "quote" function to work when quoting Blaklynx

All settings are "Clockface" references.

Lower volume settings are: Channel Two, Modern, Gain @ max, Channel Master @ 7-8, Active Loop Master @ 9-11

Higher volume settings are: Channel Two, Modern, Gain @ max, Channel Master @ 8-9, Active Loop Master @ 12-2

It is important to note that tube and guitar options make a difference.

You may have high output pickups.

I did make a change to my PI tube that included swapping the 12AX7 or a 12AT7 JAN Philips.

This may not have much of an impact.

Also I swapped Mesa in the V1 position for a Tung-Sol 12AX7

I also use =C= EL34 for one amp and =C= 6L6 for the other.

V2-V5 are Mesa issue 12AX7.

The rest of my gear is listed below.

Please note that I experienced the same loss of sustain and singing notes before any changes were made.

 

[Blaklynx]

It'll be an interesting thread, I'm sure!

When I first checked my Rectoverb (bought used), I thought, how cool and great does this thing sound! Rockin' rhythm tones, heavy, ballsy, full of power, solid. This was my 'test run' at the guys house I bought it from. Based on this and also sounding different to my Marshall, I bought it. Now at home, plugged in, excited. Went to bust into a solo and in a few seconds thought "What the?"....... notes cutting off, not blending into each other, not sustaining..... hmmmmm? Something wrong? Not at all. Maybe it's my playing? I can't be that bad. It's not what I was expecting.

With time and effort, finding this site and a great deal of reading, the conclusion was "this amp needs help"...... OD pedals/boosters/EQ's. With patience, I found that an OD pedal (or two, in cascade) can make this amp sing. Harmonics (pinched/tapped on the guitar) jump out. It was a real problem before.

With the pedals, I can really smooth out the tone. Here's my analogy to explain the tone/sound difference: With pedals it's a cement mixer with fine sand; smooth and refined, somewhat compressed. Without pedals it's a cement mixer with stones; gritty and coarse and very raw.

Discuss.

 

[screamingdaisy]

My question is, will something like the "Xotic" BB help for this problem?

I've seen clips of Andy Timmons using a BB Preamp into the front end of a Dual Recto and he gets that typical Andy Timmons sound. That said, I'm about 99% sure he uses the clean channel and all the dirt is coming from the pedal.

Also I swapped Mesa in the V1 position for a Tung-Sol 12AX7

V2-V5 are Mesa issue 12AX7.

I don't know what Mesa was using for preamp tubes back in the early/mid 90s, but they were using Sovtek and EHX preamp tubes up until recently. They now use JJs.

Back in the EHX days it was a somewhat common "mod" to switch the amp over to JJs preamp tubes. JJs don't typically produce as much gain as an EHX and are darker in sound. People liked them because they smoothed the amp out and tamed the harmonic fizz. I'm not a fan of them because they put the proverbial wet blanked on my tone and it feels like I'm fighting with mud.

Now that JJs are stock it's become somewhat common to "mod" the amp with Tung-Sol to brighten it back up and give it some more aggression.

The current setup in my Roadster is a TungSol in the V1 and the remainder are stock JJ. I hated it with all JJ, but popping that Tung-Sol in the V1 woke the amp right up. With this setup I'm getting a really good lead tone out of Vintage high gain with the tube rectifier on. Vintage on this amp stacks really well with tubescreamers, for those times when I want more compression.

The current setup in my Dual Recto (2ch) is all JJ (Mesa SPAX7). It has that typical "outstanding rhythm yet can't get a good lead tone" vibe, even with the tube rectifier. I can get better when using a tubescreamer to boost the lead, but it doesn't approach how good my Roadster does it.

Personally, I feel the issue with the Recto's lead tone is sustain. The Recto is capable of generating a whole lot of distortion without a lot of compression. From my understanding this is due to one of the tube stages being used as a cold clipping stage, which gives a harder clip than the smoooth clipping that comes from however they normally use a tube gain stage. The end result is that you get that really dynamic/powerful rhythm sound, but you don't have a whole lot of compression when it comes time to bust out a lead.

I'm not sure how they "fixed" this with the Roadster, and I'm assuming it's not just me as I've read a number of other users stating they get a good lead tone from their's. I suspect they purposely upped the compression on it? Or perhaps it has something to do with the addition of the Lone Star circuit or reverb circuitry adding compression somewhere? I don't know...

 

[YellowJacket]

With my 2 Channel Recto I can get a good lead tone on the orange channel when it runs on vintage with tube rectifiers. The 'trick' with the recto is to run the gain high to thicken up the single note stuff. The high gain searing lead tone sounds awesome but low to mid gain is virtually unusable. =-(

That being said, I find that the Recto excels as a crunch rhythm amp and compared to the versatility and flexibility of my Electra Dyne, I feel like my playing is put in a 'cast' playing on a Recto.

 

[TremoJem]

All great posts.

I have seen every AT video out there.

He uses the BB on both clean and gained channels.

When he kicks it in on the gain channel it f'n sings!

His signature model is tuned towards more compression and rounder or smoother tone.

I can't remember exactly how he described it, but it seems that it is tailored after the original BB release years ago and that is what he liked about it, whereas the newer stock ones have a higher tone and more distortion, and please don't quote me on that, as it is what I took away from it.

I think I might pull the trigger on the BBP-AT.

Oh and GEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZ, I think I am in love with the freak'n Lone Star now.

Will this ever end.

 

[domct203]

I use the BB preamp with Orange Channel Vintage and love my lead tone. The BB really adds a singing quality to the notes. I have the channel's gain and master at around 11:30-12:00, with the BB's gain at around 9:00 and volume around 1:00-2:00. Sustain is no problem with the amp's output above 10:30 or so.

I use the Diode Rectifier for it's attack qualities.

I'm also using NOS/VOS tubes in the preamp, with a Mullard 12AX7 in V1, a RFT 12AX7 in V2, a Mullard (or GE) Longplate 12AX7 in V3, and a Mullard CV4024 (12AT7) in the PI. I had a Matshushita 12AX7 in the PI for quite some time for the agressive nature it gave to my modern rhythms, but the CV4024 in the PI really brought out the best in my lead tone.

YMMV.

Dom

 

[TremoJem]

I just pulled the trigger on a BBP-AT.

Can't wait!