Roadster combo speakers/tube swap?? Suggestions?

[metalhd77]

Hey guys,

Just wondering if any of you MESA Roadster combo owners have experimented with different speakers in your combos or different tubes? It seems like the low end of the amp is really not as tight as it could be? I don't know why they chose Vintage 30's to put in these amps, as they are not really a speaker to associate with high gain tones. I heard some people like the C90 or the G12K-100 over the vintage 30's for rock and metal, but I haven't really heard the difference. The last two tube amps I've owned (last one being a shitty line 6 bogner) have been really treble happy especially at higher volumes. It's like that notoriously phrased "icepick highs" that I seem to have gotten from both. You know, when you are right in front of the speakers, and you pick single notes, and your eardrums tense up for a second and then relax between every note? That is just ridiculous! I hate that feeling! Has anyone else noticed this is it just because it is from a tube driven amp? The last tube half-stack that I had (Peavey Valveking head and Triple XXX cab), sounded just bad ***. But it was a bigger cabinet, and Peavey's Sheffield speakers. TBH, I think that Peavey would blow this away as far as tone, but not as far as versatility. I am really trying hard to like this amp, but maybe I just don't know what I'm doing? I play in a cover band that does everything from country and classic rock, some 80's rock and metal, and alternative and hard rock from the late 90's and today. Need something that has a lot of tones and options.

As far as I can tell, this amp is second to none when it comes to build quality and workmanship. I took out the chassis, and was amazed at how personalized and meticulous all the electronics are. You definitely don't see that from any other amp manufacturer that I have seen.

As far as tubes go, I understand after reading several posts that they can make a big difference as far as tone goes. I am just so used to amps such as Peavey's and Marshalls that are really easy to dial in and not so complicated. These dual recs are such a different animal, they aren't even in the same category. I thought the digital line 6 BS was hard enough to dial in and tweak, so that is why I wanted to go back to a nice traditional all-tube amp with real knobs to turn to get your sound. I think the L6 was almost easier!

I have been researching different tubes and trying to figure out if that is really what I need? I know a lot of people have a lot of different opinions on tubes, and I heard a lot of people say they don't care for the stock MESA tubes compared to some other brands. Some say JJ's are the way to go, and others say to stay away from them because they are really muddy. Basically, I want to tame the bite of the amp a little bit and add a little bit of warmth to the overall sound. I am not after that classic Marshall sound per say, but something in that neighborhood for the classic rock type stuff I do. I will be happy then. Also, I want to get a little better low gain distortion from channel 2. I tried it on Brit mode, and it is just way too thin and trebly sounding. Sounds good on Fat, but doesn't have enough gain. Does anyone have any recommendations for a hotter preamp tube for the cleans to get the breakup I'm after?

I just wish I would have known about all these issues before buying the amp, because I would have gotten something different. I really liked the sound of some of the Egnaters, Bogners, and Carvin's. I'm really not considered a "working musician", meaning I am not out gigging every night. I play out maybe once to three times a month, so $2200 for an amp is really a ridiculous price, and I am feeling the buyer's remorse like you read about! I am open to suggestions and constructive criticism.

Thanks in advance guys!


-Jason

 

[iceman]

Welcome to the board. A couple rules of thumb

To tighten up the low end get a boost pedal like the maxon 808 (very popular). Something transparent that cuts some low out. You can search the forum, there have been many threads on this topic. If I had to choose again (I have the maxon) I'd probably look into the Michael Angelo pedal (Tremonti even uses it with his Boogie).

In general before swapping out tubes read and re-read the manual. You need to take a different approach to dialing in Mesa's, forget what you know from other amps, it won't help much on dialing in a Mesa.

Typically you want to start with all your settings at noon and tweak from there. You will probably find that bass will be less than noon on most applications (even off in some).

Take your time. This amp takes a while to get to know. It is very versatile. I've had mine for over a year and I'm still learning and finding new tones. I was second guessing the decision for the first couple of weeks. Now I couldn't be more satisfied, and I'm still finding new tones all the time.

 

[Acesofbelkan]

Yeah Definitely read the manual. It's really informal and casually written so don't worry about being bored to death.

I'm not familiar with Roadsters, but since they're recto's, the strongest control is gain, second is treble, then mids, and then bass. Meaning if you set the Treble high, the other Mid and Bass knobs will shape the tone less. Set the treble low and the Bass and Mids knob become more responsive to how high and low you adjust them. So on and so forth. The presence controls the treble but in the power section.

If I'm at all wrong please someone correct me.

 

[Neptical]

NOS tubes, or combine with SED Winged =C= 6L6 AND EL34'S.....Port City 4x12 OS Loaded....

Smooth top end, tight, aggresive....THE way to go.

~Nep~

 

[volatileNoise]

Set the treble low and the Bass and Mids knob become more responsive to how high and low you adjust them. So on and so forth. The presence controls the treble but in the power section.

If I'm at all wrong please someone correct me.

You are probably 100 percent correct technically speaking, but when I was first starting out with Recto's, knowing this sort of info just did not help at all to learn how to use the amp over time, and find your own sound.

When I first upgraded from the Single Rec to the Dual, I was actually very disappointed and felt like I had done in my dollars for a train wreck. I was very wrong, it took days and days to get my head around the tonal differences and the way the amp reacts to settings. And also the BIG factor, each channel will have very different settings to each other, especially ch2 in vintage mode! Man the variation of settings are totally different to both ch1 and ch3, but the actual "sound" is spot on in between the clean of ch1 and the driven sound of ch3 (for what I find to be a good tone)

The way that the Recto's work when you first start out is kinda odd, but you get used to working with it with experience, and finding that subtle tweaks can go along way!

Last year after using the DR in the studio for tracking, and from then on working on getting a better live sound, I soon learned that when it comes to getting some serious gain out of the heavy sound while retaining great tone, means using more mids than you would usually like to dial in! More mids, and pull back the gain a bit too!

Hope this helps, cheers.

 

[metalhd77]

Thanks for the help guys! I am pretty much on the fence on whether I want to keep this amp or not. I think I just favor the raunchy sound you can get from a Marshall cranked, and this sound seems unattainable with this amp. Well, especially being a 212 combo. I just can't get this thing dialed in at all! Everything is so fricken harsh sounding except the cleans. The distortions are really scooped sounding even with the mids at 1:00 and bass at 11:00. I have gigs to play, and I can't even concentrate on the songs I need to learn. I am gonna use my singers old Marshall AVT275 solid state combo until I can figure this beast out or sell it. This whole thing has been a fiasco for me. Been fighting the tone battle for the last couple years with no good results. About ready to hang it up for good!! I am so sick of spending a **** ton of money on gear and not being satisfied in the long run. I have a friend that has a Roadking half stack, and I thought his sound was just fricken awesome, but being this amp is not a Roadking, I don't know if that is the difference, but this thing does not sound good to me. Guess I am just more of a simple guy wanting a simple amp. I thought of the Marshall JVM heads, and played one before playing a dual rec. To me the dual rec sounded bad *** compared to it. However, I didn't really get a lot of time to play with either. I have to drive for a couple hours one way to get to a guitar center, so I usually don't have a lot of time to play with stuff. In the back of my mind, I keep thinking "I should've been a bass player or drummer" way less complicated. I had a meltdown at band practice yesterday and basically told them I want to quit. They calmed me down and we just talked about my problems and they are very understanding. It isn't the only time I said I want to quit either. I'm lucky they haven't kicked me out yet!! Maybe I just have too high of expectations? The only reason I made the move to MESA is because that is the only way that I could get Sweetwater sound to give me almost full price back by trading my line 6 in. Any other amp the same price as the line 6, and they wouldn't have offered me such a good trade in. Wish I had the line 6 back now! It was way easier to dial in a good sound, but had too many technical bugs. Maybe I need to attend guitar equipment 101?? Maybe solid state is the way to go for me?? I just am not cool with the idea of spending $2200 on an amp, and then have to spend another $120-$150 to change all the tubes right away. This thing should be perfect in every way and easy to dial in, but apparently not. Maybe I should play my amp through a closed back 4X12 and see what kind of difference it makes? I can pick up a used Marshall 1960 lead 4X12 cab on craigslist right now for $350. Looks like it's in good condition too. Any other suggestions, or should I stay away from MESA?

-Jason

 

[Acesofbelkan]

Just for future reference use paragraphs, not to be mean or anything, it makes it really difficult to read your post with a wall of text.

The JVM is a great amp and it may be what you're looking for. You sound like you want less tone options and ore plug in and go.

Mesa's are designed with a ton of options and choices to make a truly versatile amp, the only downside is that it makes it more difficult to find your own sound.
Sounds like you just need to get a JVM.

I played with the AVT solid state and if the Mesa sounds more harsh than that amp then either somethings wrong with the Mesa or just get someone who's good at EQ'ing Mesa's and have him help you out.

Seriously the Mesa should never sound harsher than the AVT, that amp's gain is like icepicks.

 

[metalhd77]

Thanks! Yeah, I know I should have made it into paragraphs.....lol! Sorry about that!

Anyway, the major difference I see between the MESA and Marshalls is quality. That's one reason I went with the MESA. They are as reputable as Marshall, and are very aesthetically pleasing to look at too. Even the high end Marshalls such as the JVM just looks like a cheap MG Marshall even though it's an expensive all tube beast. In fact, more expensive than the Roadster!!

I think I'm just gonna rock this AVT for a bit until I can really get a grip on how this amp works. I am gonna lose a **** ton of money trying to sell or trade this amp. Maybe with an extension cab or a 4X12 it would sound great? I may hit up my Sweetwater rep to see if he'll trade this for the head version. I really like the full sound of a halfstack compared to a combo.

I have a friend who has a RK head and 4X12 and also a RK combo with ext. cab. He is willing to spend some time with me and help me figure out just how these MESA's work. I think I'll spend some time with him and see if I can learn something.

For now, I need to just forget about the amp and play something I know, because my playing is suffering due to all the problems I am having in this hunt for my sound. God Bless you guys who are cool enough to come on here and help dudes like me who basically don't have a clue!

Thanks again!

-Jason

 

[volatileNoise]

I just can't get this thing dialed in at all! Everything is so fricken harsh sounding except the cleans. The distortions are really scooped sounding even with the mids at 1:00 and bass at 11:00.

Okay try this - Ch 3 Modern

pres - 10 o'clock
master - 10.30 o'clock
gain - 1.00 to 2.00 o'clock
bass - 10.30 o'clock
mid - 2.00 o'clock
treb - 10.30 o'clock

And run the Output level upward of 10.00 to even start getting a sound.

Give or take a fraction to suit your axe, what axe are you using?
If you can't get a sound with something close to this then something isn't right.

My amp blows every Marshall off the face of the earth whenever we gig with any other band that uses them.

Why did you buy a combo if you wanted a half stack?