Mesa Roadster mixed with Marshall DSL 100 - tips/feedback?

[grantcooper2]

I am trying to create a bitchin tone for a heavy rhythem section in my song entitled Mummy Trouble. I am mixing my mesa roadster with a marshall dsl 100. This is what I have so far, any feedback on the tone would be great, more mids/highs/lows, less mids/highs/lows, more gain, less gain?...etc. I recorded both heads seperatly so the tracking isn't super tight because they were just quick takes. The mesa has both mics left, and one of them also in the right. The marshall has both mics right and one in the left as well. I did this to kind of blend the two heads together, but still keep the stereo field open/dynamic (at least I think that's what it's doing haha). There is also no post eq or anything of that nature.

For the clip I played the opening riff of Master's Apprentice by Opeth. Something with chugging but open chords as well, and a tone I am kind of going for...but not completely trying to rip off or anything...just a frame of reference.

Go easy on me as this is my first time REALLY recording guitars and focusing a lot on the tone.

okay enough talking here's the clip:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=917456&songID=8049779

 

[joe web]

it´s hard to tell what is missing and what is too much, because there aren´t any other instruments.
it depends on the overall sound with the drumms and the bassguitar. only if all the others are in, you can adjust the guitarsound.
but for the first listening, i would say more mids and more top-end, but as said before, without any other instruments hard to tell - and i don´t know which sound YOU are looking for.

 

[grantcooper2]

it´s hard to tell what is missing and what is too much, because there aren´t any other instruments.
it depends on the overall sound with the drumms and the bassguitar. only if all the others are in, you can adjust the guitarsound.
but for the first listening, i would say more mids and more top-end, but as said before, without any other instruments hard to tell - and i don´t know which sound YOU are looking for.

yeah I am thinking the same thing, but its funny because the bass is relatively low on both amps, the mids are like at 3:00 on the marshall, and the treble is high on the mesa too...maybe I am having some slight phasing issues that are killing some of the highs. I am trying to get a punchy fat tone, not too dirty but still organic sounding. tool meets opeth? (maybe I am dreaming)

tomorrow I will try to record something with drums and bass, but until then any advice is appreciated!

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I agree that without a mix, we can't tell you much at all...

Looking forward to hearing it with drums and bass though!

 

[Fotis]

I think that this is a good reference sound, in order to finalize your tone. Perhaps, I would also try to use just the Roadster with different eq left and right. You could also try to mix the mics in a mono channel, trying to achieve the tone you have in your mind.

take care

 

[joe web]

btw. which mics did you use?
you could try to mive the mics a bit to the edge of the speaker, to get more brightness. just try some positions.

i use three different mics in three different positions and blend it together in the mix to get my sound.

 

[grantcooper2]

cool thanks for the advice guys. okay well I am recording all afternoon as I think I am getting pretty close to the sound I was looking for after making some adjustment, so I will come back hopefully with a full band mix clip!

for mics I am using 2 sm57's. I am now quad tracking, 2 takes mesa, 2 takes marshall. I have my mics set up as follows:

Cabinet: Orange ppc412hp-8
Ohms: 8
Mic 1: sm57, top right speaker, 0 degrees, straight, 2 inches from grill cloth, 3 inches right from centre of cone
Mic 2: sm57, bottom right speaker, straight into centre of cone, flush with cloth

I am going to mark this because this is the best setup I have found thus far...but I want to try the "Fredman" setup, where you make an arrow on one speaker with the two mics.

I believe it is image C that is the correct one.

 

[grantcooper2]

okay, so first off I apologize, I can't find a mix with drums/bass that I can take the original guitars out of and plop the new ones in...so this post might be kind of useless. I am working between my friends computer and mine and I only have a mix that is all together...which kinda sucks because I want to put them in the mix and hear them and not overtop...but just from judging to how it sounds now (the original guitars in the mix are hallow and too bassy) I worked on making the new guitars (as suggested) a tad brighter with more mids.

here is the new guitars yesterday (as previously posted):
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=917456&songID=8049779

and here is what I have now:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=917456&songID=8053083

I realize this may be pointless as there is no song to put them in as a reference. and everything is personal preference. But as an overall heavy guitar tone, how is it? Balanced, punchy, fat, organic yet modern? That is what I am going for I hope I am getting close.

So for this 2nd round, I quad tracked with 2 mics, giving me 8 total tracks. 2 takes mesa, 2 takes marshall. 1 take mesa with a boost from an ocd, 1 take of marshall with and 1 without the "deep" switch. I also added SLIGHTLY more gain on each head as I wanted it a bit dirtier/organic (im talking like a 10:00 turned to 10:30 more)

In the mix there is a mesa in the left and the boosted in the right. and then a marshall in the left without the deep switch, and a marshall in the right with the deep switch. The tracking is also a lot tighter in these takes, but still not perfect as it is just a sample.

I am starting to confuse myself I think I am way over my head considering my inexperience with recording haha.

 

[Fotis]

Great tone man! This was recorded with the mic setup that you described, right? Could you also share your roadster settings?

 

[grantcooper2]

thanks dude! not the fredman style but the one i mentioned previously. here are ALL the settings:

Mummy Trouble Rhythm Guitar Tone Settings


Mesa/Boogie Roadster Settings:

100w
Bold
Recto-Tracking
Channel 4 - Modern

Amp settings in “o’clock” format:

• Gain: 10:30
• Treble: 1:30
• Mid: 11
• Bass: 11
• Presence: 9:30
• Master: 12:00
• Output: 11:30

Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100 Settings:

100w
Channel 2 – Lead 1
Deep switch on

Amp settings in “number” format:
• Gain: 4
• Volume: 6
• Bass: 4
• Middle: 8
• Treble: 4
• Presence: 4

Cabinet/Mic Details:

Cabinet: Orange ppc412hp-8
Ohms: 8
Mic 1: sm57, top right speaker, 0 degrees, straight, 2 inches from grill cloth, 3 inches right from centre of cone. Trim 3.5
Mic 2: sm57, bottom right speaker, straight into centre of cone. Trim 4.5

Mixing Tracks:
Marshall – DEEP ON Mic 1 and 2 Left, Deep Off Mic 1 and 2 Right
Mesa – OCD boost off Mic 1 and 2 Left, OCD boost on Mic 1 and 2 right





...unfortunately recording my song didn't work out so well so I will have to give it another shot when I can find time again to rent a head and spend a solid day on it again. but I learned a lot and found a tone I really liked by experimenting with the two heads so it should be easier next time, especially with a re-amper

 

[Fotis]

Thanks man! Really low gain at the roadster. I usually have mine set at around 1:00 o'clock.

Take care

 

[grantcooper2]

Thanks man! Really low gain at the roadster. I usually have mine set at around 1:00 o'clock.

Take care

no problem! yeah I keep my gain around there all the time. I find I use less and less as time goes on...especially when recording, but my tones get heavier and heavier. 1:00 o'clock is fairly moderate I think too, I don't push it past there personally. In my experience I find the heaviness/beafyness comes from layering.