Mark V:35 on Thiele 1x12 EVM12L not saturating like I want–is it a speaker problem?

[stevehollx]

I grew up playing Mark series amps into a halfback EVM12l + MC90s 4x12. MkIII red stripe with that cab was almost perfect, sold it for the MkIV so that I had less compromise on cleans in my band live. Sold the IV when I went all in on the AxeFX. Went back around and snagged a Mk V:35 and Thiele EVM12L 1x12 when I itched for tube amps again.

The Mk V:35 has never really given me what I had with the half stack. Memory is rose tinted, but I truly think something is lacking that I had.

I miss the presence and bit on rhythms that cleaned up into smooth saturated leads. Like many here, Petrucci tones 1996-2002 were a big influence of wheat I chased with the setup. I think my dilemma with the V35 is a speaker/cab problem. Sure, I know the 1x12 won’t hold the resonance up to a 4x12, but my complaint is more about the gain structure and smoothness—not chasing low end resonance.

It seems that the 1x12 EVM12L is too clean and precise sounding and as a result it doesn’t give as saturated of a sound. On the other hand, I have an Orange 2x12 V30 cab and the amp sounds too saturated with that. It seems like I want something in the middle? Is that what I liked in the 4x12 was hearing those MC90s in the top of the cab that were creamier?

I have a greenback 2x12 for my plexi but never hooked it up to the V35 (moved recently, haven’t got everything setup yet). I don’t have any cabs with MC90s/CL80s currently to test my hypothesis if I’m simply missing that speaker.

Anyone have similar experience comparing small cabs on the mark series amps? Should I be chasing an MC90/CL80 oversized 1x12? Or maybe putting a MC90/CL80 in the Theile (I know that cab wasn;t designed for that speaker). It is also the pretty bubinga cane-back one so I don’t really want to mess with it…

 

[rarebitusa]

I grew up playing Mark series amps into a halfback EVM12l + MC90s 4x12. MkIII red stripe with that cab was almost perfect, sold it for the MkIV so that I had less compromise on cleans in my band live. Sold the IV when I went all in on the AxeFX. Went back around and snagged a Mk V:35 and Thiele EVM12L 1x12 when I itched for tube amps again.

The Mk V:35 has never really given me what I had with the half stack. Memory is rose tinted, but I truly think something is lacking that I had.

I miss the presence and bit on rhythms that cleaned up into smooth saturated leads. Like many here, Petrucci tones 1996-2002 were a big influence of wheat I chased with the setup. I think my dilemma with the V35 is a speaker/cab problem. Sure, I know the 1x12 won’t hold the resonance up to a 4x12, but my complaint is more about the gain structure and smoothness—not chasing low end resonance.

It seems that the 1x12 EVM12L is too clean and precise sounding and as a result it doesn’t give as saturated of a sound. On the other hand, I have an Orange 2x12 V30 cab and the amp sounds too saturated with that. It seems like I want something in the middle? Is that what I liked in the 4x12 was hearing those MC90s in the top of the cab that were creamier?

I have a greenback 2x12 for my plexi but never hooked it up to the V35 (moved recently, haven’t got everything setup yet). I don’t have any cabs with MC90s/CL80s currently to test my hypothesis if I’m simply missing that speaker.

Anyone have similar experience comparing small cabs on the mark series amps? Should I be chasing an MC90/CL80 oversized 1x12? Or maybe putting a MC90/CL80 in the Theile (I know that cab wasn;t designed for that speaker). It is also the pretty bubinga cane-back one so I don’t really want to mess with it…

IIRC the V:35 is a el84 based power section. The III and the IV were fundamentally 6L6, depending on the Simulclass option, setup, etc.

Going to speculate a bit cause I don't have a V:35, but do have a LSS w/el84s. Have played around with swapping preamps to power amps with my V:90, IIC+ and Stiletto. To my ears the el84s are quite different and play into the tone equation especially with speaker choices.

An example, EVMs with the Marks are excellent, with the el84s it was very sterile and uninspiring. For a 1x12 solution a v30 with the el84s especially for live work cuts thru the mix, but in the studio a MC90 with an oversized 1x12 semi closed back cab is a decent, balanced compromise. For more grit pairing the MC90 with with a 1x12 v30 was the ticket. If you find a 2x12 v30 cab has too much v30 upper mid-range goodness, then pairing a v30 with something else may work. I ended up swapping one of the v30s for a Scumback M75 in a Recto cab for better balance. YMMV

 

[Nandrewjackson]

+1 vote for wrong speaker.
"Wrong" as in voiced differently for running a quad of el84.

 

[electric mayhem]

I'll second the difference between 6L6 and EL84. Never played a V:EL84 but own a DC2 combo with Jensen P12N, DC3, TA15, BA and Maverick. Aside from the tones the feel is completely different.

That said the EVM 12L was a PA speaker before guitarists decided they like it- high headroom with high sensitivity and tube breakup, not driver. It is a love it or hate it driver for many due to the lack of breakup. I love the EV's.

I'll normally take issue with 1x12's but the Thiele with 12L or MC90 are 2 of the 3 1x12's I'd use. You might want to try the ported MC90 at your local GC or what-have-you since it is the current version of Thiele. It is certainly a more universal appealing driver.

There are the 2x12 halfbacks you can still pick up or a vert recto you could swap drivers with.

It's such a subjective thing but if I had to guess never having a V but very familiar with DC's (EL84 and 6L6GC) and the II's, III's and early IV's I would try a redback in that thiele if the MC90 didn't do it for you. Or in an open back 2x12 (LS, 3/4, TA, RA/ED, roadster) either blues or golds. Low watt amps allow you to use alnicos you otherwise might not.

If that orange you tried is similar to a recto the directivity is polar opposite to the room filling halfback with the top open.

 

[GJgo]

EVs are super sterile and boring, IMO.

On the Five 35 & the JP, they're very 2D until you really dime the presence. On the 25 & 35 you can compensate by dumping the treble, then balance with 6600. This will really open it up and make it more 3D.

 

[electric mayhem]

EVs are super sterile and boring, IMO.

On the Five 35 & the JP, they're very 2D until you really dime the presence. On the 25 & 35 you can compensate by dumping the treble, then balance with 6600. This will really open it up and make it more 3D.

Coming from one of the "hate it's". And way different needs in high high gain that I never use.

Thank you for all the 12L's Jeremy! If you ever try rock or jazz maybe you'll come around??? Really it's about saturation from the amp not the driver that I love about them and I've loved "too loud" my whole life. The headroom lets me crank even the coli's. I don't know how my ears aren't shot with hundreds of concerts and clubs but there still there.

I changed a supersonic 4x12 to H75 creambacks and it limits me on amp gain to the point that I can do Billy Gibbons on "clean".

Now if you're going to dime the presence (instead of the master with the volume significantly high too), it makes me think of crazy train into the heavy duty alnico- 417-8H. But I'm hearing horror stories on prices at Great Plains Audio lately.

 

[rarebitusa]

Yea I got dragged down the speaker/cab rabbit hole years ago, best thing that ever happened, it's addicting and rewarding.

For me the EVM is a Jekyll / Hyde deal depending on the amp it is paired with. I dunno it may be that to my ears the 6L6 power section is the right fit for one. Resurrected this vertical 2x12 cab with an EVM in the closed bottom and currently has a v30 in the semi open top which is excellent with the V and the IIC+. For smaller venues the 1x12 EVM with the IIC+ is the current go to. Cuts thru well in a live mix.

 

[Joey1970]

I agree that the EL-84 power section may not jive with the EVM 12-L, in ANY cabinet.

 

[electric mayhem]

Yea I got dragged down the speaker/cab rabbit hole years ago, best thing that ever happened, it's addicting and rewarding.

For me the EVM is a Jekyll / Hyde deal depending on the amp it is paired with. I dunno it may be that to my ears the 6L6 power section is the right fit for one. Resurrected this vertical 2x12 cab with an EVM in the closed bottom and currently has a v30 in the semi open top which is excellent with the V and the IIC+. For smaller venues the 1x12 EVM with the IIC+ is the current go to. Cuts thru well in a live mix.

I went willingly down that deep rabbit hole but there is no way out and I forgot to bring popcorn.

There are still a few 4x12's "I need" and with those needs a couple donor open backs for a 2nd blue 4x12 for a 120W full stack and also a MS-12 version of black shadow 412. I love the blues but the TA15 is about all I can put thru a single one which is the other 1x12 I like in a 23" TA cab.

That's a nice 2x12 you have there.

 

[rarebitusa]

I went willingly down that deep rabbit hole but there is no way out and I forgot to bring popcorn.

There are still a few 4x12's "I need" and with those needs a couple donor open backs for a 2nd blue 4x12 for a 120W full stack and also a MS-12 version of black shadow 412. I love the blues but the TA15 is about all I can put thru a single one which is the other 1x12 I like in a 23" TA cab.

That's a nice 2x12 you have there.

oh thanks... yea that cab was a labor of love. I was just buying the EVMs, the seller said take the whole thing as the cab was worse then fugly LOL

Been looking for just one MS-12... hard to find.

 

[electric mayhem]

oh thanks... yea that cab was a labor of love. I was just buying the EVMs, the seller said take the whole thing as the cab was worse then fugly LOL

Been looking for just one MS-12... hard to find.

I'll try to keep that in mind because I do see them pop up.

I only need one more MS-12 but that project is not at the top of the list.

 

[user 21540]

I would think that four EL-84s as they are arranged by Mesa are just not going to push and pull a big driver like that very well. 6L6s have much more girth in the low end and will naturally move the cone more and push more air. Of course the distortion, will mainly be occuring in the preamp section although EL84s do break up a bit too but you will get a more clinical reflection of this -- as if it were almost occuring in a lab environment via the EV. I do think the Celestion Black Shadow is a good all-round speaker for 1x12 Boogie set ups but I know your needs are different.

 

[vrdyer]

I grew up playing Mark series amps into a halfback EVM12l + MC90s 4x12. MkIII red stripe with that cab was almost perfect, sold it for the MkIV so that I had less compromise on cleans in my band live. Sold the IV when I went all in on the AxeFX. Went back around and snagged a Mk V:35 and Thiele EVM12L 1x12 when I itched for tube amps again.

The Mk V:35 has never really given me what I had with the half stack. Memory is rose tinted, but I truly think something is lacking that I had.

I miss the presence and bit on rhythms that cleaned up into smooth saturated leads. Like many here, Petrucci tones 1996-2002 were a big influence of wheat I chased with the setup. I think my dilemma with the V35 is a speaker/cab problem. Sure, I know the 1x12 won’t hold the resonance up to a 4x12, but my complaint is more about the gain structure and smoothness—not chasing low end resonance.

It seems that the 1x12 EVM12L is too clean and precise sounding and as a result it doesn’t give as saturated of a sound. On the other hand, I have an Orange 2x12 V30 cab and the amp sounds too saturated with that. It seems like I want something in the middle? Is that what I liked in the 4x12 was hearing those MC90s in the top of the cab that were creamier?

I have a greenback 2x12 for my plexi but never hooked it up to the V35 (moved recently, haven’t got everything setup yet). I don’t have any cabs with MC90s/CL80s currently to test my hypothesis if I’m simply missing that speaker.

Anyone have similar experience comparing small cabs on the mark series amps? Should I be chasing an MC90/CL80 oversized 1x12? Or maybe putting a MC90/CL80 in the Theile (I know that cab wasn;t designed for that speaker). It is also the pretty bubinga cane-back one so I don’t really want to mess with it…

The EV is a big sounding neutral speaker I really enjoy them in my Mesa Thiele cabs. I have six of them.Not sure what you have in mind when you say saturated. Do you want a thick sound, articulate? Are you playing clean or do you want edge of breakup or overdriven? What style of music?

 

[vrdyer]

The EV is a big sounding neutral speaker I really enjoy them in my Mesa Thiele cabs. I have six of them.Not sure what you have in mind when you say saturated. Do you want a thick sound, articulate? Are you playing clean or do you want edge of breakup or overdriven? What style of music?

I like articulate, no flub for bass tones.

 

[electric mayhem]

My TA15 with two EL84's push the EV Thiele just fine. I was surprised how well it can push a recto 412 too. The EV is just not going to saturate because it is built not to.