Going Stereo: Will I harm my amps doing this?

[Vigo1999]

Allright, so ive been fooling around with some stereo setups lately (splitting, slaving mono, slaving stereo etc etc etc) and found ridiculous wonderful tones :mrgreen:

one that i like most and probably gonna use with the band is a mk3 slaving a stiletto with a ehx memory man on the signal path.

that way i only have mk3 tones, which is great, but i wonder if i can use a a/b box and also do the reverse path, with the stiletto also slaving the mk3 or i will "overpowering" them caming full circle and blowing up the OTs????

the signal path will be something like this:

gtr -> a/B box

A -> mark3 (slave out) -> ehx -> stiletto return

B -> stiletto (slave out) -> mk3 return

i do understand that I cant aby'em using both preamps at the same time (that will be full circle) but one at a time is feasible in that setup??

will i have some phase issues??

thanks!

 

[tony777]

To me this sounds like a bad idea, you will get most certainly get a looping circuit and intense feedback.

There is way better ways to go stereo.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Plugging into both EFFECT RETURNs disconnects BOTH pre-amps, so there will be no input from the guitar and no sound at all.

 

[Vigo1999]

Yeah, i was thinking that a bad feedback will occur.


i didnt know that if you plug into both effects returns it will disconnect both pre-amps. it sounds strange to me cause them i will not be allowed to use a effect on the mk III loop and them take the direct out and put on the stiletto's effect return . . .both returns will be plugged but i still have sound . . . or am I wrong??

 

[tony777]

I think you misunderstand the purpose of direct/slave out of the MKIII. it's meant to go to a mixing console, and the reason you can't go from direct out into FX return is because FX return comes before direct out in the signal chain so it won't work.

I would recommend to check out Mesa's amp switcher or similar for your stereo amping.
With that one you can use both amp's preamps and power section as well as FX loop.

Google Mesa amp switcher and you will find pictures of it. It's got wiring examples on top of it so it can tell you if it is what you're looking for.

If you already have an aby box you will need something to sum the input of the memory man if it cannot do that by itself.
Otherwise you will not be able to use both preamps into the FX unit.

You wiring will then be
GTR>ABYbox ---->A MKIII input ---> MKIII send (out) ---->(Sumbox)Memory man in L-->Memoryman out L---->MKIII return.
______________---->B Stiletto input--> Stiletto send (out)--> (Sumbox) ----------------- Memoryman out R---->Stiletto return.
This way you will be able to use both preamps into the fx.

with a sumbox I mean some kind of device that sums the signal from the FX loop sends on both preamps. Could be a small 2ch mixer or anything.

Hope this is understandable.

 

[Vigo1999]

I think you misunderstand the purpose of direct/slave out of the MKIII. it's meant to go to a mixing console, and the reason you can't go from direct out into FX return is because FX return comes before direct out in the signal chain so it won't work.

I would recommend to check out Mesa's amp switcher or similar for your stereo amping.
With that one you can use both amp's preamps and power section as well as FX loop.

Google Mesa amp switcher and you will find pictures of it. It's got wiring examples on top of it so it can tell you if it is what you're looking for.

If you already have an aby box you will need something to sum the input of the memory man if it cannot do that by itself.
Otherwise you will not be able to use both preamps into the FX unit.

You wiring will then be
GTR>ABYbox ---->A MKIII input ---> MKIII send (out) ---->(Sumbox)Memory man in L-->Memoryman out L---->MKIII return.
______________---->B Stiletto input--> Stiletto send (out)--> (Sumbox) ----------------- Memoryman out R---->Stiletto return.
This way you will be able to use both preamps into the fx.

with a sumbox I mean some kind of device that sums the signal from the FX loop sends on both preamps. Could be a small 2ch mixer or anything.

Hope this is understandable.

Hey Tony, thanks!!

yes, i got it! only thing that i not agree 100% is the fact that you has to take the slave out and go to a mixing console. it was also meant to feed another power amps and thats exactly what im doing, taking the slave out to the stiletto's power amp (effects return). ive done that in the past, just good . . . but . . . with a "sumbox" (mixer) i'll be using both preamps at the same time, dont?? and not be able to use one at a time (without going to the mixer to set the volumes for either amps).

hummm. seeing your drawing, it is actually a better version of my wiring , since it's got the mixer (the only missing link i think) and i will be able to use the Memory Man for both amps . . .

and what about phase issues? the mixer will "take care of that" also??

thaks again!!

 

[tony777]

Sure you could route the slave out of one amp into FX loop return of a different amp, that works fine.

With my routing example you would be able to use both preamps or one at a time.
Only thing I can think of that could be a problem is ground loop hum. But if you do, remove ground in one or both of the cables in the loop until hum disapperes. (for instance; remove ground in both of the return cables)

Phasing issues should not be a problem.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Yeah, i was thinking that a bad feedback will occur.


i didnt know that if you plug into both effects returns it will disconnect both pre-amps. it sounds strange to me cause them i will not be allowed to use a effect on the mk III loop and them take the direct out and put on the stiletto's effect return . . .both returns will be plugged but i still have sound . . . or am I wrong??

The Mark III RETURN will not be disabled because you are also using the SEND.

If you don't use the SEND, there's no signal going from the Mark III pre-amp to the Mark III power amp.

The signal path has been interrupted by what's plugged into the RETURN.

In your scenario above, this is what's happening with the Stiletto. Return? Yes? Send? No. You are using the Stiletto's power amp *only*.

Think of an amps SEND as the output of the amps pre-amp, and the RETURN as the input to the amps power amp.

You can take the DIRECT OUT from the Mark III and go to the RETURN of the Stiletto, but this will disable the front-end of the Stiletto. The signal path will be totally MONO with the same Memory Man (in MONO) effect available at both amps.

Also, you cannot go back to the Mark III with its own DIRECT OUT.
That will indeed result in squealing feedback.

An easy STEREO fix is to go:
Mark SEND > Memory Man > LEFT OUT to Mark RETURN and RIGHT OUT to Stiletto RETURN.
This will be stereo. Both amps are operative.

If you need to switch between individual MONO amps, you need a device like the Radial Headbone.