Appropriate use of "Y" cables with TriAxis effect loop

[Cadavre]

New to Boogie Board, so apologies the fingers ain't crossed, honest!) should this post me mis-in-forum-ed.

Working with a TriAxis / 2 Ninety configuration.

Working on the connection path for two (analog - 1 in 2 outs) stereo effects. An old ROLAND/BOSS CE 300 Super Chorus (PDF), and a BlackStar HT Delay (PDF). Heard that the input jack of some of the CE 300's were TSR. Not sure if either of these effects has TRS input ports (would be nice), but believe their output is (true) stereo.

TriAxis manual offers a loop path for a one in two out stereo effects (a delay and chorus effect in fact). Problem is it's serial, and one of the effects would be mono if the manual's loop path is used.

Made three Y cables. The Y cable plugged into the TriAxis FX send splits to the chorus and delay input jacks. The Y cable from the TriAxis FX "A" return splits to the "A" outputs of each effect and the Y cable from the TriAxis FX "B" return splits to "B" outputs of each effect.

It delivers "stereo" for both effects.

Is this configuration ok? Could it harm the TriAxis FX loop module? Is there a better way?

On a related issue, was able to use a wide body TR plug on the FX send and one of the FX returns. A third wide body TR plug would not fit. For third plug an off the rack no-name plug from an old (and cheap) 26 gauge instrument chord was milled to accept 2 stripped patch cables (braided shielding is intact and layered with shrink tube except for last 3/4").

Here's the plug - use em mostly for speaker / speakon cables ..

(Image courtesy Redco Audio)
... Looking for a recommend for TR connectors "wide" enough for two fully dressed patch cables, but narrow enough so that all three an coexist at the TriAxis FX ports.

About noise. I moved the rig to another room so to learn how to use it. The 2 Ninety, TriAxis, Tuner, Delay and Chorus all plug into the same APU. Got a lot of noise and loud hum. Switched to the other outlet and everything was quiet (cept for the 2 Ninety fan - is that common?). Would a cheap Furman M-8x2 Power Conditioner 15A resolve the issue?

Thanks

 

[elvis]

The y cable from Triaxis FX send into multiple effects units is fine. It is extra load on the FX send output, so it could affect tone, but it is essentially a low impedance output driving into two high impedance inputs.

The Y cable back into the FX returns is NOT OK. You are shorting the low impedance outputs of the two FX units to each other, and also into the high impedance input (FX return) of the Triaxis. The Triaxis won't care and won't be damaged. The FX units probably won't be damaged, as they almost always have series capacitors and resistors to prevent damage. But they will sound terrible, as they are not made to drive each other.

You could run a Y cable from a MONO output effect into both A and B FX returns of the Triaxis. You cannot run Y cables the other direction. What you want is a 4-input/2-output LINE MIXER that has pan controls for each input, OR a 2-input (stereo) to 1-output (stereo) line mixer. This will mix the outputs of the FX boxes in parallel and drive the Triaxis FX returns properly.

 

[mcnamee2]

My 2 Ninety's fan is noisy as well.

I also get a lot of noise and loud hum from my triaxis/2 ninety setup, haven't tried switching outlets.

 

[Cadavre]

But they will sound terrible, as they are not made to drive each other.

Thanks!

OTC, It sounds good - rich - the tone is rich and the tone shaping of both effects is fully and reliably rendered - but my right ear has been pretty much beat up in my Quixotic quest for the allusive redemption, or "ghost" harmonic! :lol:

Like tone most from little combo amps on dirty channel with gain at zero and master cranked up. Never got into effects and rarely used, vintage Dunlop Wah or the old DOD Phlanger. Last full time band had lots of PA, so was no longer a slave to Marshall, Sunn or Dual Showman cabs. Played through a Fender Champ with an expensive sennheiser mic duct taped to it's moth eaten grill. You may have experienced this when the acoustics and monitor levels were "perfect" - you don't have to play "as hard". Stings don't pit as fast and frets don't wear as fast.

The impetus for the Boogie rig occurred in April after an engineer played back some tracks. Very rich sound and could not determine what effects he used to produce it - so I asked and he showed. He added a "quick slap" echo and a chorus with the rate at at zero and intensity at 100. Both effects were stereo. He set it up to ie the "produced" "live" signal out the monitor so urs true could hear it as he played. First thing I noticed was I did not have to "muscle" the tone - didn't have to attenuate volume knob as much - pick attack was all I needed to control the volume - I could play "light" and get the same "crunch" without the usual fizziness of an overdriven signal.

It will probably take a half year to get to the point urs true is competent enough with the MB rig to actually work it. Don't like digital effects (prefer the infinite information embedded in an analog wave to the sample rate / word size feeble integral attempt to mime "true analog waves".

Basic goal is feeding the "modulating" boxes a post-preamp signal - and not subjugating the tone of one effect to the tone filters of the effects before, or after, it.

It would seem - and this is just an "arm chaired" assumption, that the problem with any FX send serial path (be it mono or stereo) - is that the same as the one with a serial stomp effect in front of the pre-amp - the last effect in the chain is been feed the sum of the effects before it.

Ideally, they all should have a direct signal to work with, as well as input and output level control. Parallel connections, if correctly recalling fifth grade science class, do not increase voltage when they are bussed into a single "pipe" and don't "shed" voltage when split.

In a serial effects path, both before preamp, and after preamp in FX loop (again just an armchair amateur blabbing here), the voltage remains constance because each effect "conditions" it's output back to line levels. (right?).

In a 120 volt system, were one to cut off the female plugs of two (old) extension chords, the strip the leads, and then twist the corresponding leads together, the line power profile would look the same as it would if only one of the extension chords were used. (right?)

Fifth grade science was long time back, so could be way off (don't try this stuff at home kiddies without verifying it).

It seems the FX return voltage, when the "A" output from one effect is twisted onto the "A" output from another effect, is the same. They are not "added".

The HT Delay and CE 300 have a pretty good array of output controllers. The CE has both input and direct mute (must confess, all this gear is new stuff to urs true - and the TriAxis and 2:Ninety ate all available budget - so urs true has been burning playing / learning time building cabs (urs true's first "speakon" cabs), rack, rack stand and cables. Background includes wood working shop in HS and summer jobs framing (very bad for guitar muscles). And, BTW, generous neighbors with lots of tools.

The CE 300 may have a TRS input. It is rumored that some of the older units did. I had the CE's case apart to flush ot the pots but did not think to check the input jack. Will have to pull rack mounted stuff out soon and will check again. If the CE 300 input is TRS, then urs true would "Y" cable two TR plugs to a single TRS plug x 2, and put the CE 300 between the TriAxis and 2:Ninety and let the Delay have the TriAxis FX module all to itself.

SO - the voltages are the same as they would be, if guess is right, with the "Y" Cables. Since both effects are analog, then their wave forms should retain their own individual characteristics even though they share the same pipes.

Bottom line - The rigg is quit - cept fan (figure that one later) and loud. Remember the scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey when bowmen flys into the big black prism orbiting Jupiter? In the book, Bowman is flying his pod through "ghost" space ports nodes of a wormhole the "monolith" opens up. In the movie there is a chorus track played as Bomen "descends". That "chorus" effects me like Bartok's quartets. I swear - when I was attenuating the CE and HT during feed back - I GOT THAT SAME UNEARTHLY SOUND!!! :lol:

Elvis, if you have a link that would help me understand what you are helping me with - great! I am not tech - and all this is new to me - the only reason I could chat about serial and parallel paths is from the stuff I had to read when building my cabs!

 

[Cadavre]

My 2 Ninety's fan is noisy as well.

Easy to fix - may need to be cleaned - disconnect fore you do, or you will turn fan into a gereration. Sometimes little pieces of rubber can be used to dampen the mount and grill - - miy 2:Ninety was purchased used - haven't got there yet.

My town has a great Mesa Boogie Tech (more like an old school craftsman) - if ya got one - smoke `em!

I also get a lot of noise and loud hum from my triaxis/2 ninety setup, haven't tried switching outlets.

I run through a UPS with "surge and spike" filters. Get a poer strip. And yes, wall outlets make a lot of noise. Some house hold networlks piggy pack off the hhouse power web. The "office" in my house hase like 3 x 4 outlet jacks and a bunch of 2 outlet ones - - the wiring is terrible. Was surprised myself that one socket on the same wall outlet was noisy and other quiet.

Built braided shelded patch plugs for "inside the rack" connections (Recdo 1205), just to be sure. My old mogami patch plugs seemed just as quiet - don't use cheap 26 guage intrument cable inside the rack (or anywhere else) if ya want to be noise free. Gave my nephew a "monster" cable for his guitar for CHristmas - he said it was like he was playing through a new amp. Bad cables are like like playing out of tune! :lol:

Grounding and connections should be checked. Time corrupts all.